On Sat, 2003-01-11 at 10:56, Pierre Fortin wrote: > Respectfully, then WHY did Mdk add the 3rd option (2nd upgrade method) -- > if upgrades are so bad, Mdk should have removed the existing one, not > added a 2nd one...
You misunderstand. The objective is not to eliminate or deprecate upgrades; the objective is to get a base case for comparison; and in so doing, perhaps something that works better, as a side effect. > > Format your partitions and reinstall 9.0 pristine. Then reevaluate. > > I don't see how this will help: > - ohphone/openh323 is not compiled properly -- the developer tried to > blame me initially. > - CD is a "supermount issue"; happens on pristine installs too > - sound has been a problem for a long time -- threads galore on that > - ~/.kde is a known issue even on pristine installs > - CUPS problems are a nearly daily thread on cooker/expert > Does anyone have a tool to compare a pristine install to an upgrade? That > would provide some useful information compared to the unscientific "do a > pristine install" approach. If upgrades are a problem, pristine installs > over them won't help get to the bottom of the problem(s)... Hah! Unscientific, eh? Why would you try to troubleshoot a problematic upgrade without installing a clean 9.1 beta in parallel (in another partiton on the same hardware) to provide a base case for comparison purposes? The reason for a Cooker mailing list subscription is mainly to TEST the beta's. That being the case, and you having problems, then you need to be comparing upgrades to clean installs. It is very unsmart evaluation procedure to compare a problematic upgrade to another problematic upgrade, especially if they are the same upgrade. You always need a base case; in science we call that the control. Therefore you need to have two hard drive areas available on the same hardware to install 9.1 to in order to make comparisons, if indeed you are evaluating upgrade/install or troubleshooting the upgrade functions of cooker. That's just common sense. > Besides, isn't cooker an "upgrade" system; I don't see much "do a pristine > cooker install" being recommended -- though I may be missing those. You've just seen one; and the reason I recommended it was not so that you could have a production quality system; since we are dealing with a beta and the entire thrust of the cooker list discussion is to locate problems; therefore if you are evaluating an upgrade then you need a base case to compare against, otherwise your results are tainted by contamination from the previous install. (and lack of a control) If there is no difference, then *fine*; that means you have eliminated previous distro contamination as a possiblility. That's one advantage of the control case -- finding out where the the problems are NOT. By installing fresh you also isolate problems that are possibly inherent in the installation routine, but that may not show up in the upgrade procedure. > We won't fix the problems if we keep hiding them, or running from them... Very true; and we will never fix anything at all without some modicum of troubleshooting skill. > The gist of this thread is that we need Mdk to work on reliability and > stability more than eye candy... Yes, and once again that requires proper troubleshooting skills. > I'm about to hammer on WalMart for the lack of support from their supplier > (Microtel) of Linux systems... The open source world is struggling right now to be profitable and open source at the same time. A better expenditure of time and energy would probably be in fixing cooker problems; or reporting them. If WalMart gets too much flak about their Linux distributors, they could possibly cease distribution altogether and go back to winblows only. > If Linux distros and suppliers don't care about those things that got > Linux where it is, then the movement is doomed, and I won't stand by and > let it happen if I can help it. To a certain degree I agree; we probably just differ on the timeframe. I just don't believe in spanking the baby. More importantly I don't think that as the movement (and companies) get started that there is going to be a wealth of resources to get worldwide support done. After Linux becomes a reknowned and profitable business venture, these startup firms will probably be able to have the resources to provide support. For now I don't think that they do, and as a result the onus of the support burden probably will have to be taken up by the Mandrake/Linux community. That can be our contribution to helping Linux businesses get off the ground with minimum resources. --LX -- 같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같� Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdk Evolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ 같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같�
