Many, many thanks to all for the good discussion re the accent that Ulster Scots Tyronians probably carried to U.S. I am working on a family history that began in Parish Desertcreat, Townland Gortavilly and moved to western Kentucky in 1839/1840 through 1849. I use dialect writing for the enslaved African Americans and want to do the same for the family of Henry and Mary Ballantine whose son John, the stonecutter, was the first to arrive in America.
Sent from my iPad > On Jan 14, 2019, at 5:46 PM, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList > <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > I don’t have any contemporary descriptions of Scots-Irish accents in Tyrone > in the 1800s but I do have some from Antrim which suggest that at that > period, the Ulster Scots spoke with a clear Scottish accent. (Today it has > modified a bit though it remains quite different from the rest of Ireland). > I think Tyrone may have been pretty much the same as Antrim. I have included > some other observations on Scottish influence in Ireland, for entertainment. > > A Presbyterian Minister brought up in Aghadowey, Co Derry wrote this of his > childhood in the 1820s: “Aghadowey had originally been settled by a Scotch > immigration and I found that my new neighbours spoke as pure Scotch as a man > might hear in any part of Ayrshire.”[1] > > Describing his youth in Ballycahan, parish of Dunboe, again not too far from > Drumachose a local farmer said: “Over a space of 15 to 20 miles from east to > west, and about the same from north to south, Scottish surnames, a broad > Scottish dialect and an almost universally diffused Presbyterianism indicated > the title of the people to call themselves “Scotch”. Episcopalians were few > and a Roman Catholic as rare as a black swan.”[2] > > Here’s what another source says about Scottish influence in Ireland: > > “What has been the contribution of Scottish immigrants to Ireland? Like other > peoples, the Ulster Scots have a somewhat self-admiring historical myth about > their contribution to Irish life. There were echoes of it in the words I have > quoted from J. J. Shaw but it was enunciated resonantly by the Reverend Henry > Cooke, one of its most eloquent exponents, addressing the General Assembly of > the Church of Scotland in 1836: > > “ Our Scottish forefathers were planted in the most barren portions of our > lands - the most rude and lawless of the provinces - Scottish industry has > drained its bogs and cultivated its barren wastes; substituted towns and > cities for its hovels and clachans and given peace and good order to a land > of confusion and blood.” > > Like most such myths it contains elements of truth, as does the alternative > Irish nationalist myth which portrays the Scots as greedy robbers of the best > Irish land. Scots immigrants have stamped their personality upon much of > Ulster and have penetrated to all parts of Ireland. Scottish influence is > still audible in some Ulster dialects and a vocabulary loaded with words like > 'skunner', 'gunk', 'sleekit' and 'girn'. Scottish industry has brought > prosperity to parts of Ulster but not to its bogs and barren wastes. The > Scots did not introduce any revolutionary agricultural methods or implements > though their two-eared Scotch spade gave the Irish the expression 'digging > with the wrong foot'. Later came Scotch carts, ploughs and threshing > machines. When the north-east of Ireland was relatively prosperous there were > those who attributed that prosperity, and the success of the industries which > provided it, to the Calvinism and special talents of the descendants of Scots > settlers. Less is heard of such ideas in a period of economic decline. > Geography and the emergence of entrepreneurs of genius like Harland and Wolff > neither of them Ulster Scots - had more to do with nineteenth-century > industrial success than religion or race. Yet, as a modern Scottish historian > has observed, 'it is impossible not to suspect that Calvinist seriousness of > purpose had some effect on both intellectual and economic life'. > > As well as good farmers and businessmen the Ulster Scots have produced good > doctors, teachers, preachers and engineers. If they have produced little > great literature, their eighteenth-century vernacular poets can stand > comparison with Burns himself. Perhaps inevitably, their best writers and > scholars, like Helen Waddell and Lord Kelvin, have found fame outside > Ireland. Their good grammar schools and Belfast's university, which, in its > early days, owed much to Scottish models, reflect their respect for > education. They have built neat, functional homes but few fine buildings, > though John Wesley described the meeting-house of Belfast's First > Presbyterian congregation as 'the completest place of public worship I have > ever seen'. > > Commonly caricatured as a gloomy and silent bigot, the Ulster Scot is > recognised by those who know him well as a loyal friend with a mordant sense > of humour, critical of human pretensions and self-importance. He has not, as > Henry Cooke claimed, 'brought peace and good order to a land of confusion and > blood'; instead he has contributed his share to disharmony and conflict in > Ireland, if only because he cannot compromise what he believes to be sacred > principle, which others may see as self-interest. It may be significant that > when, earlier this century, he sought a symbol with which to focus and > express his opposition to Irish Home Rule, he found it in the great Scottish > Covenants of the seventeenth century, originally devised to safeguard the > purity of the Reformation in Scotland and in the British Isles. History and > geography have combined to make Ulster as much a Scottish as an Irish > province.[3] > > I came across this wee poem recently in Ballymena library, which probably > sets out Scots-Irish ancestors feelings about their own identity and culture > quite well. It was written in the 1800s by Samuel Thomson, a weaver poet who > lived near Ballymena. “To Captain MacDougall at Castle Upton.*” > > I love my native land no doubt > Attached to her thro’ thick and thin > But tho’ I’m Irish all without > I’m every item Scotch within. > > Thomson was one of a group of weaver poets, mostly self employed men who > worked from home. They had strong connections with SW Scotland where their > ancestors had mostly lived. Thomson was heavily influenced by Robert Burns, > the master poet-ploughman, whom he met in Scotland at least once, and wrote > in his vernacular style. He also composed a poem entitled “To a hedgehog” > which was a reference to a military tactic employed at the Battle of Antrim > in 1798 (a hedgehog being a formation of men) but anyone familiar with Burns > work will immediately recognize the allusions to his poems “To a mouse” and > “To a louse.” > > > * Castle Upton is a partially fortified house in Templepatrick. Built in > 1611, I assume it was originally a Plantation Bawn. > > > > Elwyn > [1] Autobiography of Thomas Witherow 1824 – 1890 Page 25. Ballinascreen > Historical Society 1990 > [2] A Kennedy chronicle – Biography of Alexander Kennedy of Ballycahan 1818 – > 1885 by Hugh Alexander Hezlett (Coleraine library) > [3] From the Appletree Press title: The People of Ireland (currently out of > print). > > > > From: Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> > To: "cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com" <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> > Cc: Ron McCoy <ron.mc...@outlook.com> > Sent: Monday, 14 January 2019, 20:48 > Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony > > Hi Beverly > When I worked in Scotland in 1974 I took a couple of trips to Northern > Ireland. When I went there the voices and accents I heard sounded very much > like the old people I grew up with from around the Ottawa Valley Canada > though they where four generations removed. The longer I was there the easier > it was for me to slip into the way of speaking they had. People from Northern > Ireland who just met me would place my home some where around Ballymoney. > Today television and people making fun of anyone who is suppose to have an > Irish accent has pretty much muted the lilt and phraseology of the Northern > Irish in Canada and I suspect it has dampened it as well in native Ireland. I > believe the voices would have been a mingling of the old Scottish language > who came with the Undertakers to Ulster. So the language would not have been > the same as later 1800 Scottish, first because it was from an earlier age and > it was separated by the Channel. Also it would very likely be co-mingled with > Irish inhabitants who lived there as well. Together I suspect they had their > own slang, phrases, stories and language short cuts used consistently by them > but not the English or Scottish. The language would be a kind of Founders > language. We hear that in Quebec today with people from some regions who > still speak very old form of French. That would be my guess. > Cheers > Ron McCoy >> On 2019-01-14 2:45 p.m., Beverley Ballantine via CoTyroneList wrote: >> Are these sayings, and lilting voices, of native Gaelic origin? Or are they >> Scottish? I would like to know how a mid 19th century Tyrone Scots-Irish >> person sounded like when first in America. Thank you and great >> transcription work. >> Beverley Ballantine >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jan 14, 2019, at 10:11 AM, Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList >> <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: >> >>> Love that "Paper never refuses ink …" Very applicable today with >>> revision: "The internet never refuses a keystroke …" >>> >>> Rick Smoll >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> >>> To: Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> >>> Cc: Ron McCoy <ron.mc...@outlook.com> >>> Sent: Mon, Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am >>> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony >>> >>> My mom and dad used folk expressions liberally, my mom being more guilty >>> then my dad but by far the greatest offender was my neighbour who was a >>> wealth of folk expressions. She is now gone and sadly her expressions have >>> not been recorded but I am sure would have filled volumes. These I believe >>> were handed down generation after generation. One of my favorites was used >>> to deflate my budding but inflated educational ego. I would be explaining >>> to her some great scientific break through I had just learned at school and >>> she would look at me with kind but skeptical eyes and say, " how do you >>> know that." and I would say I read it in a text book to which she would >>> simply reply, " Ah well, Paper never refuses ink. Now does it?" On the same >>> vein my father would simply say to me ," Do you know that for a fact Mr. >>> McCoy or did some one just tell you that?" When it was said with that deep >>> and melodic Ottawa Valley accent which was in reality a Northern Ireland >>> lilt one could not be truly offended. I heard these expressions and so many >>> more oft repeated as a child and a young person growing up and sadly I took >>> them for granted but wished in my heart I could hear them all again. They >>> bring back great memories of kind and wise people, I miss them deeply... >>> Cheers >>> Ron McCoy >>>> On 2019-01-13 10:33 p.m., Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList wrote: >>>> Hi Listers, >>>> As a kid in Belfast, I was intrigued by so many Irish place names starting >>>> in Bally... Those who know tell me it's derived from the Gaelic 'Baile >>>> na', meaning 'place of'. My mother would recite with a smile, the popular >>>> ditty of the time: >>>> If you weren't so Ballymena with your old Ballymoney, I'd buy a >>>> Ballycastle for my own Ballyholme. >>>> My mother was one for such sayings, so much so you'd be forgiven if you >>>> thought she'd kissed the Blarney, but I doubt she was ever that far south. >>>> There must be lots of these folk expressions which have fallen into disuse >>>> and now sadly lost. >>>> Gordon >>>> -- >>>> _________________________________ >>>> Nereda & Gordon Wilkinson, Hyde Park, South Australia. >>>> Web: www.ozemail.com.au/~neredon Skype id: neredon >>>> Emails: gordon.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au >>>> nereda.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CoTyroneList mailing list >>>> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com >>>> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ >>>> (_internal_name)s >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CoTyroneList mailing list >>> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com >>> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ >>> (_internal_name)s >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CoTyroneList mailing list >>> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com >>> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ >>> (_internal_name)s >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CoTyroneList mailing list >> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com >> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ >> (_internal_name)s > > _______________________________________________ > CoTyroneList mailing list > CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ > (_internal_name)s > > > _______________________________________________ > CoTyroneList mailing list > CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ > (_internal_name)s
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