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I have an open mind. I do not allow emotions overpower logic when making critical decisions. You have told us what cannot work, now tell us what WILL WORK. This terrorist attack cannot go unpunished. For that matter, in my mind, the punishment MUST exceed the crime. g/f On Mon, 17 Sep 2001 14:05:07 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]---- > > In a message dated 9/17/01 11:01:29 AM US Mountain Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the > > Stone Age." Ron Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would > > mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this > > atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What > > else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether > > we "have the belly to do what must be done." And I thought about the > > issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and > > even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's > > going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks > > from where I'm standing. > > > > I speak as one who deeply hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. My hatred > > comes from first hand experience. There is no doubt in my mind that these > > people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that > > something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Bin > > Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of > > Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over > > Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When > > you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. > > And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the > > concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to > > do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. > > They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and > > clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. > > > > Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The > > answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A > > few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 > > disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. > > There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these > > widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the > > farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons > > why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban. > > > > We come now to the question of "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone > > Age". Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. > > Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? > > Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their > > hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine > > and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would > > only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. > > > > Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, > > only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd > > slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled > > orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But > > flying over Kabul and dropping bombs would not really be a strike against > > the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be > > making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people > > they've been raping all this time. > > > > So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true > > fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with > > ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to > > be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as > > needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing > > innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on > > the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would > > die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's > > much bigger than that folks. > > > > Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through > > Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would > > have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where > > I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. > > And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. > > That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right > > there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem > > ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the > > West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those > > lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even > > better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end > > the West would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for > > years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. > > > > Who has the belly for that? Unfortunately, Bin Laden does. Anyone else? > > > > In Peace, > > Tamim Ansary > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > > > > > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:00:51 -0700 (PDT) > From: sky king <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Fwd: RE: [KG] An Afghan's perspective > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Note: forwarded message attached. > > > __________________________________________________ > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > Donate cash, emergency relief information > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > From: "Harper, Gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [KG] An Afghan's perspective > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 05:36:47 -0700 > > > He raises a very good point that I have thought about myself. Actually, I > would like to see America not only invade Afghanistan but to take it over > and battle the Taliban not as foreigners but as people in our own territory. > That would put a twist on things. Of course, I know this won't happen since > I am sure many people and nations would object. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Troy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 5:57 PM > To: Karmann Ghia Club Mailing List > Subject: [KG] An Afghan's perspective > > > > Hi Everybody, > > The following is the real perspective of a real live Afghanistanian, a > folk musician who's fairly well known in Bay Area folk music circles. I > have kept my eyes open and have seen recent (this summer) documentaries on > Afghanistan and its people and while I reserve judgement on bin Laden's > involvement, I think this persons description of Afghanistan's current > condition is exactly accurate, and his view of the politics of the > situation seem to be exactly on target too. ... His words are certainly > worth our consideration: > > Richard > > ______ > > I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the > Stone Age." Ron Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would > mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this > atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What > else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether > we "have the belly to do what must be done." And I thought about the > issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and > even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's > going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks > from where I'm standing. > > I speak as one who deeply hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. My hatred > comes from first hand experience. There is no doubt in my mind that these > people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that > something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Bin > Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of > Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over > Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When > you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. > And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the > concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to > do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. > They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and > clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. > > Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The > answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A > few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 > disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. > There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these > widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the > farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons > why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban. > > We come now to the question of "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone > Age". Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. > Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? > Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their > hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine > and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would > only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. > > Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, > only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd > slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled > orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But > flying over Kabul and dropping bombs would not really be a strike against > the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be > making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people > they've been raping all this time. > > So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true > fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with > ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to > be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as > needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing > innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on > the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would > die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's > much bigger than that folks. > > Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through > Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would > have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where > I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. > And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. > That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right > there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem > ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the > West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those > lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even > better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end > the West would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for > years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. > > Who has the belly for that? Unfortunately, Bin Laden does. Anyone else? > > In Peace, > Tamim Ansary > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > The KarmannGhiaClub e-list is a NO FLAME, NO ATTACHMENTS, NO AUCTION ADS > email list. > > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body > 'unsubscribe karmannghiaclub [EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Example: unsubscribe karmannghiaclub [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > This list is sponsored by: > The Karmann Ghia Club of North America, KarmannGhia.org > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > The KarmannGhiaClub e-list is a NO FLAME, NO ATTACHMENTS, NO AUCTION ADS email list. > > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body > 'unsubscribe karmannghiaclub [EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Example: unsubscribe karmannghiaclub [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > This list is sponsored by: > The Karmann Ghia Club of North America, KarmannGhia.org _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ==^================================================================ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiLm.aVzvvT Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^================================================================
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