Dear all,
Apologies for the delayed reply.
I believe that we have first of all to clearly distinguish between the
different goals of the models here under discussion. If I haven't
misunderstood the whole thing over the last few years
- CIDOC-CRM as well as FRBRoo are conceptual models, ontologies which
capture and represent the semantics encountered in museum and
bibliographic information. Both are primarily and authoritatively
described and defined in natural language, and encodings in any
technical format provide implementations, but not definitions of the
model. There are no authoritative
- LIDO as well as ONIX, in contrast, are XML-based metadata standards,
both defined as XML Schema. LIDO, being an application of the CRM,
provides an explicit format to deliver museum information in a
standardized way. ONIX provides an explicit format for book industry
product information.
To my understanding the well worthwhile task Michael Hopwood is
undertaking, is a schema crosswalk between LIDO and ONIX which of course
has to be based on the conceptual models CRM and FRBRoo. And at this
occasion analyzing to which extent the LIDO schema would fit with the
requirements of an explicit format for bibliographic / book industry
product information. This does of course not imply that LIDO should be
used for this kind of data - it's in the first instance an analysis to
highlight matches and limits and thereby facilitate the understanding
and work for people who work with these schema in practice (and are not
necessarily that familiar with the whole conceptual background) - e.g.
sending data to Europeana.
This said all such work must of course rely on the proper schema
definitions (so e.g. inscriptions are clearly bound to a physical
carrier according to the LIDO schema as well as the CRM definition).
Best regards,
Regine Stein
(Co-chair CIDOC Working Group Data Harvesting and Interchange, being the
"LIDO home")
Am 21.06.2012 12:24, schrieb patrick.le-bo...@bnf.fr:
Dear all,
I confess I am totally perplexed by the request. I am not a LIDO
specialist, but it seems to me simply impossible to map ONIX to LIDO,
as they were not designed to describe the same things (as is correctly
demonstrated in reference [4]). ONIX can be mapped to library formats
such as MARC formats or MODS, but LIDO was designed to account for
physical objects, not abstract notions such as publications; the only
element of "non-uniqueness" I can find in LIDO is the mention of the
state/edition to which a specific art print or photograph print
belongs (but a LIDO record is designed to account for the specific
print as a physical object, not to describe the abstract notion of
"state"). In my (possibly wrong) understanding, "authoritative
examples of CIDOC-CRM and/or LIDO data records or sets for
bibliographic objects" cannot be provided, as such examples simply
cannot exist. Assistance "with the decisions on semantics, syntax and
mapping rules to translate ONIX structures into LIDO" cannot be
provided either, as ONIX structures, in my (possibly wrong) opinion,
simply cannot be translated into LIDO.
The suggestion that a manifestation could be described in LIDO as
though it were a unique item does not seem to me particularly helpful.
What is the point of doing so? And regarding a printed text as a
specific case of "inscription" seems to me to be stretching the LIDO
(and CRM) notion of "inscription" too far. The temptative mapping from
UNIMARC to CRM, to which Michael Hopwood refers in his message, is a
demonstration that it is impossible to map from a model or format
designed to account for abstractions to a model or format designed to
account for unique physical things.
As Martin puts it, FRBRoo would be a better match for a mapping target
from ONIX (and <in/d/ecs>). Besides, I do not understand why ONIX
should be mapped to LIDO in the first place (I failed to discover the
"background on how and why" in reference [4], although I found that
document extremely interesting). But I leave it to LIDO specialists to
send a more comprehensive answer to Michael Hopwood.
Best wishes,
Patrick Le Boeuf (National Library of France, and member of the CIDOC
CRM/FRBR Harmonisation Group)
Message de : *martin <mar...@ics.forth.gr>*
18/06/2012 19:17
Envoyé par :
*frbr-crm-boun...@ics.forth.gr*
Pour
crm-sig@ics.forth.gr, FRBR Group <frbr-...@ics.forth.gr>
Copie
Objet
Re: [Frbr-crm] [Crm-sig] Bibliographic data in CRM / LIDO -
authoritative mappings, help urgently requested
Dear Michael,
I forward your request to the FRBR-CRM Harmization Group. I'd expect
CRM-FRBRoo would provide a much better fit,
but the colleagues from IFLA are THE experts in this respect.
Thank you for your questions! I hope you will get enough answers,
otherwise, ask again.
Best
Martin
On 18/6/2012 7:12 ??, Michael Hopwood wrote:
Hello CRM and LIDO experts,
I am working on the final draft of a comprehensive mapping of the ONIX
for Books 3.0.1 schema [1] to the LIDO schema [2] in the context of
Linked Heritage [3]. For more background on how and why, please refer
to EDItEUR's first deliverable in Linked Heritage (which also includes
more on ONIX) [4]. The expression of this mapping work is primarily
XSLT using the MINT system [5]
Since the best practice in mapping standard data schemas [6] is to get
firm agreement or at least assent after clarification from both
schema's designers / maintainers, I'd like to ask you urgently for
assistance in this effort, especially any or all of these ways:
a) Contributing authoritative (see above) examples of CIDOC-CRM
and/or LIDO data records or sets for bibliographic objects (i.e. books
and library catalogue records) (these will be used only for the
purpose of understanding the schemas and building the mapping);
b) Assisting directly with the decisions on semantics, syntax and
mapping rules to translate ONIX structures into LIDO (I will supply
any necessary explanation of what the ONIX schema says based on
EDItEUR's authoritative expertise);
c) Reviewing and criticising the draft mapping in detail from a
CRM/LIDO perspective once it is complete.
The CRM-LIDO mapping at _http://www.cidoc-crm.org/crm_mappings.html_I
did not find very helpful, as it is at a very high level of
abstraction; I need some help with both fairly broad semantic
categories and some fine details of semantics and (the limits of)
expressive syntax (maybe I'm missing something, so I'd be grateful to
be shown where!).
Some of the mapping notes and action notes from the UNIMARC (at link
above) express the problems I have come across conceptually -- e.g.
- Mapping the "manifestation" class for a generic product as
though it were a unique ("representative") item (LIDO)
- Future or planned events (CRM and LIDO -- but is this
helped by FRBRoo?)
...and there are some new difficulties that I discovered:
- "Inscriptions" as printed text on identical, mass-produced
products? (CRM and LIDO)
- Structured text elements of names and titles (LIDO for
sure; maybe CRM?)
- Contact details (LIDO for sure; maybe CRM?)
- Allowed uses / terms and conditions -- i.e. rights and
licences (LIDO for sure; maybe CRM?)
- Almost everything to do with the relationships between, and
relative detail needed for an artwork or object as subject of a book
vs. the book itself as the artwork (LIDO).
Please feel free to either discuss this request on the list or, I
suggest without insisting, contact me directly to discuss the mappings
in detail with other interested experts.
Best wishes,
Michael
NOTES:
1. _http://www.editeur.org/93/Release-3.0-Downloads/_
2. _www.lido-schema.org/_ <http://www.lido-schema.org/>
3. _http://www.linkedheritage.org/_
4. _http://www.linkedheritage.org/getFile.php?id=283_
5. _http://mint.image.ece.ntua.gr/redmine/projects/mint/wiki_
6.
_http://www.doi.org/VMF/documents/VocabularyMappingFrameworkIntroductionV1.0%28091212%29.pdf_--
see section 1.5 "Authorisation of mappings"
Michael Hopwood
Linked Heritage Project Lead
EDItEUR
United House, North Road
London N7 9DP
UK
Tel: +44 20 7503 6418
Mob: +44 7811 591036
Skype: michael.hopwood.editeur
_http://www.linkedheritage.org/_
_http://editeur.org/_
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