I think the meaning of a library flooding is that the books get wet. We
can model to a microscopic scale if the situation requires, but this is
not necessary for this example I think. In the case of the wildfire, it
could be both, i.e. both triggered and also part of it, but we cannot
assume that the triggering event always completely contains the
triggered event.
I would also propose a minor rewriting of Martin's paragraph:
"The distinction of a triggering event A from the triggered event B lies
in their difference of nature. The starting of B is the result of an
interaction of material constituents of A with material constituents of
B. However, B does not necessarily continue the kinds of processes of A.
Therefore the triggering event A must spatiotemporally overlap with the
initial time and area of the triggered event B. Any subsequent phenomena
must initiate from this area and time."
Is that an improvement at all? Or am I confusing things?
All the best,
Thanasis
On 22/04/2023 08:38, Wolfgang Schmidle via Crm-sig wrote:
One more question: Can a wildfire trigger the destruction of a house, or does
the burning down of the house form a part of the wildfire event? In other
words, is there a difference of nature or is the destruction a continuation of
the kinds of processes of the wildfire?
Am 21.04.2023 um 12:59 schrieb Wolfgang Schmidle via Crm-sig
<crm-sig@ics.forth.gr>:
Here's a diff:
* label:
OLD O13 triggers (is triggered by)
NEW O13 triggered (was triggered by)
(in the examples it was already called "triggered" rather than "triggers")
* scope note:
Part 1 is unchanged:
This property associates an instance of E5 Event that triggers another instance
of E5 Event with the latter. It identifies the interaction between events: an
event can activate (trigger) other events in a target system that is in a
situation of sustained tension, such as a trap or an unstable mountain slope
giving way to a land slide after a rain or earthquake.
Part 2:
OLD In that sense the triggering event is interpreted as a cause. However,
the association of the two events is based on their temporal proximity, with
the triggering event ending when the triggered event starts.
NEW The distinction of the triggering event from the triggered one lies in
their difference of nature: The starting of the triggered event is the result
of an interaction of constituents with the triggering one, but not a
continuation of the kinds of processes of the latter. Therefore the triggering
event must spatiotemporally overlap with the initial time and area of the
triggered event, and the spreading out of the subsequent phenomena must
initiate from this area and time and not from multiple independent areas.
* FOL:
O13(x,y) ⇒ P182(x,y) removed
(Domain, range, quantification, examples are unchanged)
About the changes:
Scope note part 2: If there needs to be an interaction of constituents and thus
a spatiotemporal overlap, then I am not sure I understand the 1966 flood
example. There is an overlap between the flood and a book getting wet and an
overlap between a book being wet as a result and the growing of the mould, but
is there an obvious interaction between the flood and the mould beginning to
grow on a book? I am assuming O13 is not meant to be transitive?
What is the initial time and area of "mould growth on books stored in flooded
library rooms"? Is it obvious that this area is connected and not multiple
independent areas?
FOL / superproperties: The new scope note suggests P132 "spatiotemporally overlaps with", as well
as P176 "starts before the start of" (also suggested by Thanasis) and P173i "ends after or
with the start of"?
Additional questions:
Scope note part 1: What is the sustained tension in the target system (books
stored in library rooms) in the 1966 flood example? Or in a house that is
destroyed by an earthquake or a wildfire?
Examples: Since we want to get rid of fictitious examples, would it make sense
to replace the earthquake/landslide example? Non-fictitious examples would be
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise,_California#2018_fire or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_Things_Go (an artistic cascade of
triggering events)
Best,
Wolfgang
Am 20.04.2023 um 14:01 schrieb Martin Doerr via Crm-sig <crm-sig@ics.forth.gr>:
Dear All,
Here my first go:
OLD
O13 triggers (is triggered by)
Domain:
E5 Event
Range:
E5 Event
Quantification:
many to many (0,n:0,n)
Scope note:
This property associates an instance of E5 Event that triggers another instance
of E5 Event with the latter. It identifies the interaction between events: an
event can activate (trigger) other events in a target system that is in a
situation of sustained tension, such as a trap or an unstable mountain slope
giving way to a land slide after a rain or earthquake. In that sense the
triggering event is interpreted as a cause. However, the association of the two
events is based on their temporal proximity, with the triggering event ending
when the triggered event starts.
Examples:
The earthquake of Parnitha in 1999 triggered the rotational landslide that
was observed along the road on the same day. (fictitious)
The explosion at the Montserrat massif in 2007 (near Barcelona, Spain)
triggered the rock fall event happened on 14 February 2007 (Vilajosana et al.,
2008).
The 1966 flood in Florence triggered mould growth on books stored in flooded
library rooms (Rubinstein, N., 1966)
In First Order Logic:
O13(x,y) ⇒ E5(x)
O13(x,y) ⇒ E5(y)
O13(x,y) ⇒ P182(x,y)
NEW
O13 triggered (was triggered by)
Domain:
E5 Event
Range:
E5 Event
Quantification:
many to many (0,n:0,n)
Scope note:
This property associates an instance of E5 Event that triggers another instance
of E5 Event with the latter. It identifies the interaction between events: an
event can activate (trigger) other events in a target system that is in a
situation of sustained tension, such as a trap or an unstable mountain slope
giving way to a land slide after a rain or earthquake.
The distinction of the triggering event from the triggered one lies in their
difference of nature: The starting of the triggered event is the result of an
interaction of constituents with the triggering one, but not a continuation of
the kinds of processes of the latter. Therefore the triggering event must
spatiotemporally overlap with the initial time and area of the triggered event,
and the spreading out of the subsequent phenomena must initiate from this area
and time and not from multiple independent areas.
Examples:
The earthquake of Parnitha in 1999 triggered the rotational landslide that
was observed along the road on the same day. (fictitious)
The explosion at the Montserrat massif in 2007 (near Barcelona, Spain)
triggered the rock fall event happened on 14 February 2007 (Vilajosana et al.,
2008).
The 1966 flood in Florence triggered mould growth on books stored in flooded
library rooms (Rubinstein, N., 1966)
In First Order Logic:
O13(x,y) ⇒ E5(x)
O13(x,y) ⇒ E5(y)
Best,
Martin
--
------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr
Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics
Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
Vox:+30(2810)391625
Email:
mar...@ics.forth.gr
Web-site:
http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
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