FYI - I noticed that the decision was made to drop support for GTK+ 2 versions older than 2.18. See https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_5.xml
Great news IMHO. Thanks from my side to Aleksandar for addressing this issue. 2014-10-16 15:30 GMT+02:00 Jonas Helming <[email protected]>: > Hi, > > we are using 2.18.9 in production. We therefore test it continuously and > are also willing to provide fixes for it. > > Best regards > > Jonas > > Am 10.10.2014 09:42, schrieb Aleksandar Kurtakov: > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Marc-André Laperle" <[email protected]> > >> To: "Cross project issues" <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 8:09:53 PM > >> Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Limiting GTK versions supported > by SWT or SWT call for help > >> > >> I see in the target environments that Eclipse 4.5 supports SUSE Linux > >> Enterprise Server 11 which only has 2.14 according to the package list . > > Good catch, GTK was updated to 2.18 in SP2 we should clearly mark the > requirement for service pack 2 being installed in the target environment. I > have used foundation servers to do rpm -qi gtk2 and expect the rpm version, > whether it's Suse's one and etc. and there is 2.18.9 there. > > > > > https://www.suse.com/LinuxPackages/packageRouter.jsp?product=server&version=11&service_pack=sp2&architecture=x86_64&package_name=index_all > > > >> Aside from that, I think only supporting 2.18 and up sounds pretty safe. > >> Will it be sufficient to help the GTK3 situation though? It sounds like > it > >> won't help the two examples you gave (using GdkRGBA and using cairo > only to > >> draw). > > You're right. It would not help as much as I would like but it will give > a clear sign that we reached the limit. > > > >> I also wonder how much time is really saved in testing, bug reporting > >> and fixing for 2.10/2.14 if they are so old that it's unlikely that > people > >> use them. > > I personally don't do any checks fixes for GTK 2.20. Heck, even 2 weeks > ago we have fixed a bug that was making Eclipse not start on certain > combination of Cairo and GTK 2.24. (bug 441705) > > > >> I can see that in the code it will remove quite a bit of branches > >> so that's good for readability but will it make a difference for the > GTK3 > >> support stability and make it easier to adopt new recommendations? I was > >> under the impression that as long as 2.24 is supported, it will be hard > to > >> adopt most of the new ways of GTK3. But you probably know a lot more > that I > >> do about the subject :) > > Removing this code is big win. Think of the next one that join and try > to fix something. I don't envy Anatoly (who did most of the GTK3 port) for > starting and having to deal with stuff that was there for 2.0-2.10 > compatibility and was not used at all. A lot of his time was spent dealing > with such things instead of really working on GTK 3 problems. This is > clearly something that is hurting the development and makes it way harder > than it should be to work on SWT. > > Regarding the changes needed there are many things that have changed in > 2.10-2.18 like - new tooltips code(bug 386772) (anyone experiencing the > ever staying popups?), new clipboard/selection code (DnD problems anyone?), > restacking windows (a lot of the direct X calls in for that and the GSoC > student adding support for Wayland had to expect them one by one, could > have worked on equinox.launcher instead), visibility notify (catch the > signal and ignore?, no way to hurt performance :)), etc. One can say that > removing this would not fix the bugs and will probably be right but if it > makes the next person assigned a bug not scared and not losing time reading > useless stuff we have achieved a lot. > > This was only about useless stuff. But there are new features that are > not added as if we have to version guard them it will take twice the time > to do them one I can think of is Link widget (GTK 2.18 supports link in > GtkLabel) which can be improved that way meaning that we can stop caring > about accessibility and let GTK care for that for us. > > > > > >> By the way, is it completely ruled out to have two ports? The GTK2 port > could > >> remain almost untouched (critical bugs only) and the GTK3 port would be > free > >> to use all the new GTK3 stuff. I remember that for a while, there was > both > >> the Carbon and Cocoa port for Mac so people would be free to use the > more > >> stable one and "modern" development could happen on the Cocoa port > without > >> compromise. Eventually, Carbon was marked as unsupported and was removed > >> recently without fuss. > > All of the above equally benefits GTK 2 and 3 so things are not that > different, the difference between 2.10 and 2.24 is probably bigger than > between 2.24 and 3.8 from SWT POV. If others step in I would not mind > having GTK 2 port (set in stone) and GTK 3(actively developed) but in the > current situation I really think that having only one is better. > > > > Alexander Kurtakov > > Red Hat Eclipse team > > > >> Regards, > >> Marc-Andre > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: [email protected] > >> [[email protected]] on behalf of Aleksandar > >> Kurtakov [[email protected]] > >> Sent: Thursday, 09 October 2014 12:00 AM > >> To: Cross project issues > >> Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Limiting GTK versions supported > by > >> SWT or SWT call for help > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Tom Schindl" <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 1:16:29 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Limiting GTK versions > supported by > >>> SWT or SWT call for help > >>> > >>> hi, > >>> > >>> dropping Gtk2 means: > >>> * swing embed is broken when the Gtk-Theme is used because it links > >>> against Gtk2 > >>> * javafx embed is broken because it links against Gtk2 > >>> > >>> So clearly openjdk/oraclejdk (even the latest builds) links against > >>> Gtk2, or am I wrong in this regard? > >> Hi Tom, > >> My mail seems to be misunderstood. This is not a proposal to drop GTK > 2.x > >> support (2.10 - 2.24) in general but to limit this support to only > newer 2.x > >> versions (aka 2.18+). With 2.18 being released 5 years ago[1] and being > in > >> strict maintenance mode for smth like last 4 years this is safe > requirement. > >> It also DOES not require any change in Mars target environments [2] and > will > >> satisfy even Luna [3]. > >> So to make it clear GTK 2.18 up to 2.24 will still be supported. > >> By bumping this minimum requirement we open the door for streamlining > swt > >> codebase as there are many changes that have happened (macros-> > functions, > >> struct access -> functions, etc.) which are the same for newer GTK 2.x > >> (2.18-2.24) and GTK 3.x versions but we have different codepaths for > older > >> GTK 2.x versions (2.10-2.17). > >> So this proposal will not affect the Swing problems in anyway. > >> > >> [1] > >> > https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2009-September/msg00054.html > >> [2] > >> > https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_5.xml#target_environments > >> [3] > >> > https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_4.xml#target_environments > >> > >> Alexander Kurtakov > >> Red Hat Eclipse team > >> > >>> I can also prove what Andrey said: We have turned of Gtk3 on *all* our > >>> linux desktops because there are too many problems with it. > >>> > >>> Tom > >>> > >>> On 08.10.14 16:18, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote: > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "Andrey Loskutov" <[email protected]> > >>>>> To: "Cross project issues" <[email protected]>, > >>>>> "Aleksandar Kurtakov" <[email protected]> > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2014 5:11:53 PM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Limiting GTK versions > supported > >>>>> by > >>>>> SWT or SWT call for help > >>>>> > >>>>> BTW we at Advantest are still using RHEL 5.8, even because RHEL has > >>>>> crazy > >>>>> long support times :o) > >>>>> > >>>>> Limiting to GTK3 only and drop GTK2 ports for *new* Eclipse releases > >>>>> would > >>>>> be > >>>>> good idea but AFAK GTK3 SWT port is still problematic (I'm on > *latest* > >>>>> Ubuntu and must turn it off). > >>>>> > >>>>> In general I would also prefer to have always *one* (smallest > possible > >>>>> from > >>>>> latest GTK on major distros) SWT port for latest Eclipse release but > >>>>> that > >>>>> port must be 99% usable. > >>>>> > >>>>> I won't hijack the thread, but the best long term solution for SWT > Linux > >>>>> ports and Eclipse UI toolkit in general would be to move away from > SWT > >>>>> to > >>>>> Java FX or better Qt (I know Qt LGPL license is a showstopper, but > this > >>>>> *is* > >>>>> technically viable alternative). Without the man power of IBM (which > >>>>> originally allowed SWT to be developped for so many different > >>>>> plattforms) > >>>>> SWT as we have it today has no feature. > >>>> Options are endless. But let's try to limit the discussion towards > Mars > >>>> and > >>>> Mars+1 for now. In this timeframe I don't think a new option will pop > up > >>>> and I'm trying to solve our daily issues first so we can try to look a > >>>> bit > >>>> further. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Alexander Kurtakov > >>>> Red Hat Eclipse team > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Am 8. Oktober 2014 16:44:30 OESZ, schrieb Aleksandar Kurtakov > >>>>> <[email protected]>: > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> From: "Mat Booth" <[email protected]> > >>>>>>> To: "Cross project issues" <[email protected]> > >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2014 4:27:25 PM > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Limiting GTK versions > >>>>>> supported by SWT or SWT call for help > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>> From: "Igor Fedorenko" <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 8 October, 2014 12:38:10 PM > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Limiting GTK versions > >>>>>> supported by > >>>>>>>> SWT or SWT call for help > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> What major distribution still stuck with GTK2? Aren't they all on > >>>>>> GTK3 > >>>>>>>> already? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>> Igor > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> RHEL 6/CentOS 6 only has GTK 2.20, IIRC > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Kind regards, > >>>>> Andrey Loskutov > >>>>> > >>>>> http://google.com/+AndreyLoskutov > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or > unsubscribe > >>>> from this list, visit > >>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe > >>> from > >>> this list, visit > >>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe > from > >> this list, visit > >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe > from > >> this list, visit > >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > _______________________________________________ > > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > > [email protected] > > To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe > from this list, visit > > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > _______________________________________________ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > [email protected] > To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe > from this list, visit > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev >
_______________________________________________ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list [email protected] To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev
