-Caveat Lector-
Hawk wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Joshua wrote:
>
> > Freedom is not scary to me. Libertarians are scary to me. They seem to be
> > somewhat adolescent. Like you for example. The above statement is scarily
> > absurd in its lack of reality perception. YOU MUST BE A LIAR to state that
> > crack, heroin, alcohol, and tobacco have no affects on people other than the
> > users. I won't even dignify your idiotic statement with obvious examples of its
> > absurdity.
>
> Hey... May I say something? In case you don't grasp the concept... If you or
> anyone else shoves pine cones up his.... well, into his ears, lets say, and it
> causes severe irritation to you, BUT you want to do it, why the hell should I
> care?
You shouldn't and neither should I. Do I have health insurance or do I
get
you to pay for my stupidity by going to the emergency room? If I do
have
health insurance, do your rates go up because I felt like sticking
pine cones
in my ears?
> Should we outlaw pine cones? Of course not. But if your severe irritation
> causes you to throw rocks at passing cars, then eventually you will suffer even
> more for that anti-social behaviour, because you force the consequences of YOUR
> irrational behaviour on OTHERS.
What do you mean " eventually?" What if your wife and children were in
one of
those cars and crashed and died? Is that worth YOUR philosophy of
freedom? If
YOUR freedom means putting others at serious risk of life or limb,
then you will
just have to do with less freedom. I care about your family more than
I care
about your freedom. Do you?
> Your come-uppence, however, should be based on
> the throwing of rocks at other people, and NOT foster attempts to outlaw pine
> cones.
This is pleasant theoretical bullshit, but if we know that 50% of pine
cone
jammers throw rocks at cars and wind up hurting people, then it would
only be
wise to preempt that behavior to save lives. If that means it's harder
for you
to indulge in such behavior, so be it. You lose. We all win. If you
can't live
with this, then get yourself a little homestead in the mountains and
do what
ever the hell you want.
> > > What exactly do you find so troubling? Do you not believe an individual
> > > is 'intelligent' enough to determine his own vices?
> >
> > Some are, but most are not.
>
> And, we are to suppose, YOU are?
Yes, that's right.
> Or rather, YOU and a group of others who agree with you?
What others?
> > I fear stupidity and and the legitimization of greed.
>
> Ah.... You do not fear the outlawing of greed?
It's not possible to outlaw greed. But you don't need to be lavishly
rewarded
for it.
> Thus, if anyone does anything for
> a selfish reason, he should be convicted of a crime?
It depends on what they do.
> If so, practically every
> free exchange of goods and services for money would make criminals out of
> all the participants in the deal.
That would depend on the deal wouldn't it?
> > Not freedom and liberty. I fear ideological theories that have no basis in
> > reality.
>
> Then why do you embrace them so?
No basis in reality eh? How come all organized societies are more like
my
concept than yours?
>
> > I have actually lived in the type of society you theorize about. I have seen
> > people damage themselves irreparably and even die because those who they lived
> > with weren't sure that they should step in and save them from themselves.
>
> Dear God! Please deliver us from such as would "save us from ourselves!"
What are you bothering him for? It's his rules.
> > It was tragic and unnecessary. Life is more important than freedom. That's what
> > you clowns can't seem to understand.
>
> That is PRECISELY the most wimpish and absurd thing you could say. It is such a
> theory that makes people volunteer for slavery rather than accept responsibility
> for their own actions....
Everybody should take responsibility for their own actions. Marvelous
concept.
> Please, Sir, find a kind master for yourself and leave
> the rest of us alone.
I'll be glad to leave you alone. Until you sell tobacco, crack,
heroin, defective
toys, poisoned food, polluting cars, endangered species, hate speech,
and other sundries.
If you don't like it leave. You are not going to get your way because
it's
impossible to run a large society on such idotic ideology. You may
need to start
your own. Don't forget the pine cones.
Joshua2
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