-Caveat Lector-
As always innumeracy reigns
on 01/11/03 1:29 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
\
> I made no claim that equitable was synonymous
> with equal.
>
And yet every time I take about equitable treatment, you respond with
"equal" treatment.
> Thew
> We were discussing behaviors of the state - and
> its responsibility.
> MJ
> A LEGITIMATE State is a collective application of
> the individual's right to his own life. Any other
> 'State' merely provides advantage to some at the
> expense of others.
>
> I am not certain what 'responsibilities' you imagine
> apply, but ....
>
A state is there to provide service to the individuals who are members of
the state. These services cost money.
> Thew
> It is not JUST or FAIR (equitable) that a greater
> burden is placed on those who can least shoulder
> it, while those who can best do so, use their
> resources to ensure they do not have to, while
> the same resources could be used more
> EQUITABLY, especially in the name of some
> fictional SAMENESS (equality), that is really
> just a cover for lack of compassion for the other,
> or the society they are riding atop.
> MJ
> Nonsense.
That is a viewpoint, not a fact. I don't expect you to agree with my
viewpoint, in fact, that¹s what I said the problem was.
>
> I have no problem with YOU voluntarily providing YOUR
> resources to those YOU deem in need. I do, however,
> have a problem with YOU *FORCING* me to provide
> MY resources to those YOU deem in need.
>
Again - if a state is to exist, I can only see it existing to serve its
members. This costs money. Ina state "of and by" the people, the only place
for that money to come is from the people who make up the state. This
applies to defense spending, as well as health care, schools, passable
roads, basic infrastructure, etc.
> Of course you need your bifurcation in order to hide
> your lust for enslavement and theft.
Bifurcation? Where? I'm saying it right out. I would prefer there was no
need for a state at all, but unfortunately there are both dangerous assholes
who need to be held in check, and others who suffer who need to be helped.
These are things a state should do. It has to be paid for somehow.
>
> What is not JUST or FAIR (equitable) is that
> a greater burden is placed on some, while
> others are exempted. ALL individuals should
> be treated EQUAL(ly) by Government. This is
> the ONLY method that is EQUITABLE. After
> all one is supposed to have EQUALITY under
> the law.
>
> Thew
> Compassion for others is one of the few legitimate
> uses of government I can imagine.
> MJ
> Stealing from some citizens is not compassion.
Unfortunately those who can afford to give without coercion seem to be those
least likely to. I don't know why.
>
>
> Thew
> We can do better that coldhearted slavery to the bottom
> line - as a nation, as individuals, and as humanity.
> MJ
> Continuing with your bifurcation ...
>
Again - where? I state my belief - nothing hidden.
> Thew
> Equal is not equitable.
>
> eq·ui·ta·ble
> Marked by or having equity; just and impartial.
> e·qual
> Having the same quantity, measure, or value
> as another.
>
Not the same thing at all. As you even stated earlier in your post - which
is it, are they the same or different?
The former deal with "just" which has nothing to do with quantity, it is an
abstract concept. The latter is a concrete term relating to mathematical
amounts. Not the same thing at all.
> MJ
> If Joe and Steve pay $1 in taxes, their burden is EQUAL.
> The Government REQUIRING Joe and Steve pay $1
> in taxes is EQUITABLE.
>
> If Joe pays $1 and Steve pays $2, their burden is UNequal.
> The Government REQUIRING Joe to pay $1 and Steve
> pay $2 in taxes is INequitable.
Here is the innumeracy - always a good bet with the ignorant.
If Joe earns $10 a year, and steve earns $100 a year, then in your 1st
example joe is paying 10% of his income, while Steve is paying 1% of his
income, and thus their burden is UNequal.
As to equitable - it is about justice and what you consider important, not
strictly about number crunching (reread your own definitions above)
EQUITABLE is a judgment call. To me it seems that if Joe earns $10 a month
and needs $8 to feed his children while steve earns $100 and needs $8 to
feed his children there is NOTHING EQUITABLE about taking the EQUAL amount
from each of them.
Again- in summery. Government's sole purpose is service to the members of
the society it governs. In the world as it stands today service costs money.
The only place for a government of and by the people to get money is from
the people. Not all people can afford the same amount of payment, as their
situations and needs differ. Those who benefit most from a society, have
the greatest responsibility to the society they are benefiting from. They
have the greatest ability to provide for their society as a whole with
suffering because of it. It would be most JUST (equitable) for those that
profit most and can most afford to shoulder the burden to do so.
Equal is not the same as equitable.
>
>
> Regard$,
> --MJ
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