From: "Bob Stokes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> << Yes, we do live in a Republic, where a mob like the Cubans encamped
> outside the home where Elian Gonzalez is staying have no right
> to ram their ideology down the throats of others...>>
>
> Then you are saying that it is OK for those of your ilk to ram your political
> agenda down the throats of others?
No, I'm saying NO mob, no matter what their political leanings, have the right to ram
their political ideology down the throats of
others.
And just whom is my 'ilk', Bob? ;-)
> << How can we 'prove' that the majority and the laws are against them?
> Proving the laws is simple.>>
>
> If it is so simple, how come no one has stated what that laws is?
Let's start with the anti-loitering laws in Miami...
> << I'd hazard a guess that if you and I decided to loiter on any street in
> Miami, we'd soon have cops telling us to move along. If we
> didn't, we'd find ourselves arrested.
>
> For some reason this simple anti-loitering statute is NOT being applied in
> this case.>>
>
> I'm sure you're right about that, maybe not arrested, but asked to move
> along, then if we didn't, we probably would be arrested.
That is exactly what I said.
> << Any state in the union would recognize a biological father's right to have
> custody of his own son, over the claims of a maternal
> grand-uncle, unless it could be proven that for some reason the father was
> an unfit parent.>>
>
> This should be international law, what does that say?
I don't know what 'international law' says, nor what international governing body you
are going by.
_I_ go by the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and the laws of the individual
states of the Union.
> Maybe the fact that
> his Mother died trying to get him out of a Communist country says something.
It says nothing. If you bend the law when it's someone escaping from a country you
don't like, then how can you uphold the law when
it's someone escaping from a country who's an ally, or perhaps escaping from your own
country.
If the tables were turned, and this kid's mother died as she was trying to escape the
U.S. and enter Cuba, what would your argument
be if relatives in Havana claimed to have a better right to have custody of the kid
than the father back in the U.S.? What if a
mother who brought her child to visit relatives in Iraq suddenly died, and the Iraqi
relatives took custody of the child, and
claimed they had a superior claim to custody? Would you argue as vehemently for THEIR
right to custody over the custody of the
American father back in the States?
And if we decide that Elian Gonzalez is deserving of political asylum, why then are we
turning away thousands of Haitians, many of
whom are also children, who are also seeking political asylum?
> What I hear around this neck of the woods (Colorado) is that the Mother was
> trying to give her son a better life here in the US. Is her death for
> nothing?
In my neck of the woods, coworkers and people talking about it while waiting in line
at the store all say the father should have
custody.
We have no idea what was in the mother's mind; according to her own mother, she had a
good life in Cuba, and according to her mother
was not unhappy and was not political. Her mother has been quoted as saying she
suspects the new husband was behind the decision to
leave Cuba, and she believes her daughter was pressured into going. Hardly the
description of someone seeking political asylum.
>> They have the same rights as all citizens, no less, but certainly no more.
>> One has to wonder why the Cuban mob parked in permanent
>> encampment outside the home where Elian is staying are being given special
>> treatment. One wonders why this Cuban child should get
>> any more special treatment from the INS and the Justice Department than a
>> child escaping from Haiti.>>
>
> The last statement makes me wonder what is happening while people are paying
> attention to this "pony show" that is going on, what are the
> elites/government doing behind the scenes now that they have a good smoke
> screen?
I'm not so sure it's government elites we should be looking for, but other 'elites'....
> <<Speaking only for myself, it is quite common to use a nickname on the
> Internet, in fact it is more common than not. In my case I
> use the nickname, and only sign with my first name, to avoid stalking.>>
>
> I can understand that, there are many perverts in this world and I think the
> US has more than our share, but why would a man hide his identity?
A man can be stalked as easily as a woman can be...
> I believe this is a matter of international law since he is not a US citizen.
Sure it's a case of U.S. law. It is applied every day to illegal immigrants from
countries other than Cuba. It is applied to
Haitians and Mexicans.
There is no reason for 'international law' to become involved. It is solely the
province of U.S. immigration law.
And since when did 'international law' take precedence over the Constitution of the
United States, and the laws of the sovereign
states of the Union?
> Are you saying that if a Mother scaled the Berlin Wall and died in the
> process of escaping East Germany with her child, that you would turn the
> child over to the Communists in East Germany, I sincerely doubt that was ever
> done.
I don't know if it was or it wasn't. It would depend on what the laws were in West
Germany at the time.
But if the child's father was still living in East Germany, and the father was not
unfit to care for the child, then yes, I would
say the child should have been returned to the custody of the father, irregardless of
the country the father resided in. The fact
that this may not have been done in the past does not make such a denial of custody
correct.
> << If this was a case involving a mother escaping Iraq with her child, and
> the father back in Iraq wanting to take custody of his child
> after the mother's death, I would still support the father's right to raise
> his own child, even though I hate Saddam Hussein and his politics. >>
>
> I may have thought that way until I came to know a Kurd from Iraq. He was in
> the Iraq military and defected as soon as he could, he is now happy to live
> in the US.
I'm sure he is. But that has no bearing on whether a biological parent back in Iraq
should have custody of his or her own child.
June
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