"c." wrote:
-Caveat Lector-Sorry, I missed it.i thought there was more humour in you than there apparently is bb and it
seems i didn't make the satire or sarcasm bold enough for you to see, my
mistake.
But it's a little difficult to see humour when you attack me,
my country, my government, my military personnel, and
curse us and our endeavors.
However, maybe there IS more humour in me than
you think -- didn't you read my suggestion that you relax
and enjoy a hamburger? Hmmmnnnnn??
Additional comments interspersed below.Well, I guess that's second guessing the pilot, he had----- Original Message -----
From: "BB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 3:39 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Dead Chinese fighter pilot footage> -Caveat Lector-
>
> No, I will agree to no such absurd, preposterous thing.
> It is not negligent to land one's aircraft to save 24 lives,
> it is only common sense, and international law provides for
> such emergencies. I keep making this point, you keep not
> reading.international law is all well and fine- but my point remains- they shuld
have sealanded the craft and bailed to stop it gettig into chinese hands and
to avoid the resulting diplomatic coup that china has since enjoyed.
a decision to make. Ditching at sea is always dicey, usually
fatal. A large plane rarely comes to rest, but flips tail over
nose, or catches one wing with resulting cartwheels and
breakup -- usually fatalities.
I cannot detect ANY diplomatic coup that China has
enjoyed-
They are in jeopardy of losing much, and now are doing
a
diplomatic dance about returning our captured (under
the
force of arms), stolen, rifled, pilfered aircraft.
was chewed, the engine shut down, they lost 5-8000 feet of>
> You do not "effectively" give your military aircraft to an enemy
> simply because you were forced to land there in order to save your
> life,they should have bailed.
>especially since the aircraft was rendered inoperable
how do you make that out? I make that out because one prop
altitude with the pilot using all his strength to hold the
aircraft straight because of most of the remaining torque being
applied to the right wing, AND finally, because of your own
words, describing the herosim of the instigator of the incident,
noted below with **, which says "he is a national hero because
he **brough down an aircraft that was spying on his mother country"
AND
"for knocking out an american aircraft"
Therefore, I conclude the plane was rendered inoperable
because you admit that it was "brought down" and
"knocked out."
It really does not matter whether or not it is commonby the
> reckless joy ridings of a hot-shot jet jockey showing off.no- not showing off- if you read the article it explained that it is a
common practice to buzz spyplanes,
practice, his foolish and irresponsible behavior resulted
in his death, and any reasonable person would conclude that
his low speed, all but falling out of the sky proximity to the
large aircraft, his combination of Italian, Hawaiian and Chinese
hand gestures to the US crew, and the holding up of the sign
with his email address on it for the crew to read, all while
"flying" one-handed was in fact showing off.
during the cold war it was done on bothIf it were 200 MILES off San Francisco, I imagine nothing.
sides. neither side actually fire on each other, so stay within int. law.
what would america do if chinese spyplanes were off san fransisco?
i read a
washington times piece that was wetting it's knickers because of an increase
in activitiy by china off the chinese coast LOL so i doubt that military
manouvers would be tolerated by america.
Out sea 200 miles, we wouldn't care. You
forget,
Castro's Communist Paradise is a mere 90 miles
south of Florida.
I quote from the bottom of each posting,
in fact- how would america react if one of china's allies were to station
100,000 men just on your doorstep? cuba say? you would fuck them up in
hours. NO NEED TO REVERT TO PIGMOUTH.
"Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector."
yet america have 100,000 in japan.You seem to have forgotten, there was a bit of a skirmish
in that area back in 1941 through 1945, and Japan bombed
Pearl Harbor even as the Japanese Ambassador was preparing
for a meeting with our President FDR., killing 1555 American
naval personnel, doing a great deal of damage - on Sunday morning
yet. Having done so, they engaged us in a rather long, protracted
war in the South Pacific, wherein they cost us many American
lives, brutally torturing and murdering many of them in true
Asian fashion whenever they could, as exemplified in the Bataan
death march, and other Island skirmishes wherein they felt
bullets were not sufficient, but beheading was more appropriate.
Maybe I need to be more direct also
- had it not been for the
Americans that seem to annoy you so much, you would
be
speaking German now, (and maybe us too). Imagine living
under
a benevolent government such as the one capable of
the
12 million plus murders of the holocaust.
(Please don't launch into a tirade that it did not
happen.)
That will be the day that International Law bows down> International law provides that such a landing NOT BE PUNISHED,
> due to the overriding consideration of the emergency. I made that
> point before also, apparently to little avail.to no avail because it just doesn't wash... international law bows down
before public opinion. china won the propaganda war of that incident. maybe
not within america- but outside it for sure.
before public opinion. It's a non-sequiter that you bring
in a factor of propaganda war winning - it was never a
point of consideration as far as this discussion goes.
You say it doesn't wash -- perhaps you
did not read my
recounting the incident wherein a Russian aircraft
landed
in Alaska.
But it was YOU who brought up the subject of executions,>
> I really couldn't care less how china could show us how to deal
> with traitorsit was irony, bb, america is second only to china in the league table of
domestic, civilian executions so i don't really think america needs any
lessons in executing- but those yellow ribbons really pissed me off.
so why castigate ME for it?
What kind of cold hearted person are you, that 24 anxious,
concerned, fearful families would post a yellow ribbon
outside their home in the publicly expressed
hope that
their loved ones would return home, and their action
would PISS YOU OFF?
Do you not have anyone close to you, a family member,
for whom you would not do the same? Pissed off?
WHY??
Have you NEVER heard "Tie a yellow ribbon 'round
the
old oak tree"?
Perhaps you did not witness the "demonstrators"-- those uncivilized, murderous brutes are viscious
> animals when it comes to dealing with human beings.erm... can i just mention the policing of the seattle anti WTO
demonstrations? very civilised indeed.
trying to rip Seattle to shreds? Did your news not
show you that part? You are going far afield --
this discussion began with consideration of the
"accident" -- what has Seattle demonstrations,
or the MANY slaps you have made about America and
Americans, have to do with the fact that an irresponsible,
belligerent Chinese pilot CAUSED, at best, an
international incident.
You seem delighted with all this -- would
you LIKE to
see a war between the USA and China?
Would YOU come to our aid??
But it was YOU who boasted that the chinese could teachAs far as
> executing their crew, I doubt it a great deal -- they did not execute
> their second pilot participating in the harassment,he didn't give a plane to the yanks, so why execute him?
us a lesson in executions. YOU brought it up - where are
you going with this? You want ME to defend YOUR point
of view???
He failed to provide "safe support" to his brother
who
was killed, or a hundred other excuses the Chinese
could
have drummed up in the event that they wanted to play
it
that way.
and they all but
> named the deceased a national hero for his ridiculous antics which
> cost his life, a Chinese aircraft, and an American aircraft, along with
> a great deal of intelligence hardware and data, and compromised military
> secrets.you are confused-
Naa, I'm not confused -- maybe you've
heard of the Chinese
overwhelming necessity to "save face."
Here's what young Wong Way accomplished for his country.
1. He lost his life. All that training down
the tubes.
2. He lost his aircraft. All that money, so few aircraft.
3. He created an international incident. All
that anger, warmongering,
posturing, threatening.
4. He placed in jeopardy his country's immense income
from
selling us, and half the rest of
the world, almost everything
we can buy.
5. He placed in jeopardy his country's bid for the
2008 Olympics.
No, no confusion here - he's a hero now that he's gone,
but consider
how much of a hero he'd have been had he survived--
remember the
manacles hands on the opposite side of the jail bars
--?
You did not mention that example, or reprint that
brutal episode
I documented last time.
he is a national hero because he **brough down an aircraft <--------- (1)acrimony - I detect nothing friendly about any of your comments
that was spying on his mother country. his sacrifice was worthy.
and they are hardly going to execute him (if he lived) **for knocking out an<------------ (2)
american aircraft and allowing the chinese army to have a gander at it are
they? why do you think that the chinese authorities would punish him for
compromising american secrets? ;)>
> I really do not know why you hate us American types so much,i don't- OH, but you do - your every comment against us drips with
about America or Americans.
i just think that having only the one superpower is unbalancing- itsuper-power - perhaps we could create a few more, just
creates situations in the world where america thinks it can act with
impunity. Dreadfully sorry, old man, for being the only
for you, so the situation won't be "unbalancing."
Better yet, what about "the sun never sets on the
British Empire?"
exaggeration - we danced with this one before - International
like i said- if the reverse situation happened then america would be
horrified that china was being so evil as to spy on you so closely.
deny that if you can. SO CLOSELY is a deliberate
treaty provides for 60 miles, the Chinese claim 200.
Your every comment indicates you sympathize with the
oh-so-traumatized Chinese, innocent lambs that they are.
Would you feel reassured if we had no surveillance
activities
whatever - like the Russians and Chinese DON'T have?
What are you getting at with all the sniping - what's
your
goal? Would you LIKE to see us overthrown?
You're constantly telling us what bothers you, what
pisses
you off, now tell us what you're FOR - what's your
GOAL,
what would you LIKE to see happen?
Have the Chinese made NO contributions to our former
President? BOUGHT no influence? Attempted influence
in NO elections?
Control both ends of NO Panama Canals?
Maintain NO ports in the BAHAMAS, with adjacent
"world class airports"?
Have NO 20 year leases of former Naval Bases in
LONG BEACH, CALIFORNIA?
Have expressed NO intentions of obtaining control
over
the Suez Canal?
SPY SO CLOSELY??? Give me a break - wake up,
man --
They are HERE in my country, NOT
200 miles offshore
in an airplane.
privy to what your government is doing?> you must not forget that as allies, your country benefits from the
> surveillance and data gathered as well as the rest of the free world.no- we get data that suits america- So Say You ---are you that
do not dress it up as some sort ofbenefits" - and no, it's not reciprocal, the UK gathers no such
recipricol thing- I dressed up nothing - I merely said "your country
information to share.
unless it suits america. the missile defence crapola is a
great example... for it to work stations are needed in the UK- but it won't
protect the UK- only america.
fuck that for a laugh.No need to become a PIG MOUTH c., I'm sure you can remain
civilized, if you try.
We are just delighted and impressed with your vocabulary, but
do I need to remind you of what Anne Robinson would say to you AGAIN??
Are you drinking? On drugs?
You don't seem too confident in
your own government if you think they are so easily
duped.
You seem sure we'd leave you unprotected - just like
we did during world war II. We did our best
to protect Israel
during the Gulf War - what makes you think we'd abandon
you?
Why the anger? Why the chip the size of a sequoia
on your
shoulder? What in the world gives you that insight
to make
that statement, that you can be sure what will and
will not
happen.
>brutality was delete here.
> Let me give you one small insight into the mind and humanity of
> the Chinese government you admire so much, seen on NBC news
> about one month ago. A detailed account of Chinese
>going on trial for both criminal and civil charges, and I
> NOW, you want to "induce siezures in" yourself, get a look at that
> brutal treatment of a human being, being administered by the
> bragging, bellicose "inheritors of 5000 years of history."rodney king? Nice diversion, but I don't see 18 chinese jailers
don't see the poor Chinese victim coming away with several
million dollars for his troubles.
video of one of your bobbies beating a prostrate victim half tohow many equivielnat atrocities commited in the free world would you like me
to scrape up? After the King episode, we were treated to a
death, but, to remind you yet again, you digress, and veer
far away from the discussion of WHO caused the incident.
I wouldn't want you to scrape up any - I just wanted
to
demonstrate that the Chinese are gearing up for a
war,
deliberately provoking trouble, and contrary to their
posturing as being a modern, civilized society, are
in
fact brutal and murderous.
BOTTOM LINE, my friend, is that you are hereby defrocked
as the resident Anti-American that you are, and it
would
behoove you to stand up like a man and admit it -
regardless
of your protestations to the contrary. Snipe, Snipe,
oh but no,
I don't hate you --- It's just that I do not
approve of you, or of
anything you do, and I'd kind of like to see you fail
big-time-
but No, I don't hate you. No, NOT MUCH.
NOW, WHO ARE YOU REALLY ????
A shill? A Plant??? The latest in a long
line of
disruptors??? A stirrer?
Just what do you hope to
accomplish by being "pissed off?"
Just what does c. stand for anyway? China? Chinese?
Relax, enjoy a hamburger.
<A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org</A>
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