-Caveat Lector-
Well, J2, one does not have to be perfect to be declared a Saint by
the Catholic Church for all have sinned, etc. It is more about a
preponderance of good works and I cannot remember the other
criteria but a miracle is good. Sure, it would have been good if
Pius had spoken out against Hitler but that is hind sight speaking
and I do not believe the full picture was realized until it was too
late. But your saying Hitler was the way he was BECAUSE of his
religion is one of the most prejudicial statements I have ever
heard made. Most evil people are that way IN SPITE of whatever
religious training they have had, regardless of that religion. Few
religions advocate evil. The same religion produced Albert
Sweitzer and Mother Teresa. Did Son of Sam kill because he was
Jewish or in spite of it?
Excommunication would have done nothing for it is just saying that
the person cannot receive the sacrament of communion until some
issue is resolved. They can still attend mass, etc. for only God
can truly excommunicate.
If Hitler had wanted money from me, I would have been afraid to
refuse. I also think of the artworks in the Vatican and wonder if,
given the Nazi's penchant for art, there was an effort to protect
the irreplaceable. But I do NOT think Hitler was listening to
religious leaders at all and was heavily into the occult instead.
I do not think the Pope had any influence at all or there would not
have been war in the first place. Pope's only have real influence
in matters of religion, not politics. And a Pope/Priest will bless
just about anything if asked. It is not the same as giving a
personal blessing or endorsement. They will bless dogs, cats,
basketball shoes, doorways and Heads of State. Pius blessed troops
on both sides for they do not have the right to refuse if asked by
people going into battle, regardless of the cause.
I hope this commission has access to all the records and the truth
be what it may. I also hope that there will be enough
understanding of the actual circumstances so as to not condemn each
other but rather try to understand how mistakes are made. But keep
in mind that just as many Catholics went to the death camps from
Poland as did Jews. And there is also evidence of Jewish
collaboration, French and everyone else. And I think the majority
by far did not know what was happening in all the confusion of a
war.
Now I have to go and read a post from another list about why the
Pope IS a Jew with a Jewish mother and put in place by the Jews to
run the Vatican. You know, given his advanced age and frailty,
there is not much that can be said at this late date that will
alienate his followers. I hope the commission will get n with the
work and stop bickering among themselves. Did you read the article
about Jews planning to seek reparation from the Catholic Church?
Is that what this is really about, getting money? While pretending
to have other motives?
~Amelia~
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 10:09 AM
Subject: [CTRL] Vatican charges of `slander campaign'
-Caveat Lector-
Jews angered by Vatican charges of `slander campaign'
By Shlomo Shamir Ha'aretz 8 August 2001
Jewish leaders and a Vatican official yesterday traded accusations,
with
the
Vatican official - Rev. Peter Gumpel - accusing the Jewish members
of a
Jewish-Catholic historical commission investigating Pius XII's
activities
during the Holocaust of "clearly incorrect behavior." Gumpel
charged that
they have helped mount "a slanderous campaign" against the Catholic
church.
Seymour Reich, who heads the International Jewish Committee for
Inter-religious Relations, which worked with the Vatican to appoint
the
commission, reacted angrily to Gumpel's letter.
"These are very serious accusations," said Reich. "We are
astonished and
frustrated by the fact that Father Gumpel chose to attack the
historians
and
particularly to single out the Jewish scholars on the team."
Gumpel, in charge of providing answers to a bi-religious commission
of
historians investigating Vatican actions during the Holocaust, is
working
on
plans to beatify Pius XII. The commission members, Jewish and
Catholic
alike, suspended their work three weeks ago because the Vatican has
not
released all of its World War II-era archives.
Gumpel defended Pius' action in the letter, saying material made
available
to the historians showed that Pius made "every possible effort to
save as
many lives as possible, without any distinction."
"We hope and assume that Father Gumpel does not express the
official views
of the Vatican," said Reich.
The historians, who were appointed by the Vatican and Reich's group
in 1999
to examine Pius' actions, released a preliminary report in October.
They
described a pope bent on fruitless diplomacy as reports of
atrocities
poured
into the Vatican. The historians said at the time that questions
still
needed to be answered before they could issue a final report. They
expressed
hope that the Vatican would open up the archives of the Holy See's
correspondences to fill in the gaps in the 12 volumes of wartime
documents
provided by the Vatican.
Gumpel said, however, he had met with the group and answered some
of their
questions and offered to answer the rest at another session, but
that this
was ignored.
It was therefore disconcerting, he said, that in the following
months some
Jewish members in the group had systematically affirmed that they
never
received answers to their questions.
Reich accused Gumpel yesterday of "prevarication," saying that he
had met
with the commission "only once, gave it limited time, and refused a
second
meeting."
Gumpel said it was false that the Vatican does not intend to open
up its
archives, saying this will be done "as soon as they are ready."
---
J2> The Vatican pulled this one before. They refused to release the
Dead Sea Scrolls for study by all schollars. They kept those locked
up
for half a century.
---
Gumpel said several, though not all, of the Jewish members of the
commission
had publicly spread the suspicion that the Holy See was trying to
hide
documents that in their judgment could be compromising. He did not
give
their names. Gumpel said the panel's work had failed as a result of
irresponsible actions by some of its members.
A New York Jewish leader was working behind the scenes last night
to get
the
historical commission back to work, using contacts with Archbishop
Walter
Casper, Gumpel's superior, to settle the affair.
<A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A>
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