Hello, I repost this because I got no feedback at all. I guess it shows that my email was long enough for not being read :)
Thanks, Mt. On Wed, May 14, 2003 at 05:29:00PM +0200, Martin Quinson wrote: > In order to help the current discution to find an usefull conclusion, I > would like to propose you the following blahblah for inclusion in the debian > reference "Managing packages" chapter, for example after the one on porting > and geting ported. This is very far from being perfect, and I would be more > than happy to discuss it before the actual inclusion. But, please, do > respect the reply-to to debian-i18n, so that we discuss it on the right ML. > > Friendly, Mt. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Internationalizing, translating and being internationalized and translated Debian supports an ever-increasing number of natural language. Even if you are native english speaker and do not speak any other language, it is part of your duty as a maintainer to be aware of issues of internationalization (abbreviated i18n because there is 18 letters between the 'i' and the 'n' in internationalization). Therefore, even if you are ok with english only programs, you should read most of this chapter. According to "Introduction to i18n" from Tomohiro KUBOTA, (http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/intro-i18n/), "I18N (internationalization) means modification of a software or related technologies so that a software can potentially handle multiple languages, customs, and so on in the world." while "L10N (localization) means implementation of a specific language for an already internationalized software." l10n and i18n are tied, but the difficulties related to each of them are very different. It's not really difficult to allow the program to change the language in which texts are displayed based on user settings, but it is very time consuming to actually translate the messages. On the other hand, setting the character encoding is trivial, but adapting the code to use several character encodings is a really hard problem. Letting alone the i18n problems, where no general receipt exist, there is actually no central infrastructure for l10n within Debian which could be compared to the dbuild mecanism for porting. So, most of the work have to be done manually How are handled translations within Debian? =========================================== Handling translation of the texts contained in a package is still a manual task, and the process depends on the kind of text you want to see translated. For program messages, the gettext infrastructure is used most of the time. Most of the time, the translation is handled upstream within projects like the Free Translation Project (http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/), the Gnome translation Project (http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gtp/) or the KDE one (http://i18n.kde.org/). The only centralized resource within Debian is the Central Debian translation statistics (http://www.debian.org/intl/l10n/), where you can find some statistics about the translation files found in the actual package, but no real infrastucture to ease the translation process. An effort to translate the package descriptions started long ago even very few support is offered by the tools to actually use them (ie, only APT can use them, when configured correctly). There is nothing to do for the maintainers, and the translators should use the DDTP (http://ddtp.debian.org/). For debconf templates, maintainer should use the po-debconf package to ease the work of your translators, which should use the DDTP to do their work. Some statistics can be found both on the DDTP site (about what is actually translated), and on the Central Debian translation statistics site (http://www.debian.org/intl/l10n/ -- about what is integrated in the packages). For webpages, each l10n team have access to the relevant CVS, and the statistics are available from the Central Debian translation statistics site. For general documentation about debian, the process is more or less the same than for the webpages (the translators have an access to the CVS), but there is no statistics pages. For package specific documentation (man pages, info document, other formats), almost everything have yet to be done. Most notably, the KDE project handles translation of its documentation in the same way than its program messages. Debian specific man pages begin to be handled within a specific CVS repository (http://cvs.debian.org/manpages/?cvsroot=debian-doc). I18N & L10N FAQ for maintainers =============================== This is a list of problems that maintainers may face concerning i18n and l10n. While reading this, keep in mind that there is no real consensus on those points within Debian, and that they are only advices. If you have a better idea for a given problem, or if you disagree on some points, feel free to provide your feedback, so that this document can be enhanced. How to get a given text translated? ----------------------------------- To translate package description or debconf templates, you have nothing to do, the DDTP infrastructure will dispatch the material to translate to volunteers with no need for interaction from your part. For all other material (gettext files, man pages or other documentation), the best solution is to put your text somewhere on Internet, and ask on debian-i18n for a translation in the different languages. Some translation team members are subscribed to this list, and they will take care of the translation and of the reviewing process. Once done, you will get your translated document from them in your mailbox. How to get a given translation reviewed? ---------------------------------------- >From time to time, individuals translate some texts included in your package and will ask you for inclusion in the package. This can become problematic if you are not fluent in the given language. It is a good idea to send the document to the corresponding l10n mailing list, asking for a review. Once it hase be done, you should feel more confident in the quality of the traduction, and include it fearlessly into your package. How to get a given translation updated? --------------------------------------- If you have some translations of a given text laying around, each time you update the original, you should kindly ask to the previous translator to update his/her work to make the translation uptodate with regard to the current original text. Keep in mind that this task takes time, at least one week to get the update reviewed and all. If the translator is unresponsive, you may ask for help to the corresponding l10n mailling list. If everything fails, don't forget to put a warning in the translated document, stating that the translation is somehow outdated, and that the reader should refer to the original document if possible. Avoid removing completely a translation because it is outdated. An old documentation is often better than no documentation at all for non-english speaker. How to handle a bug repport concerning a translation? ----------------------------------------------------- The best solution may be to mark the bug as "forwarded to upstream", and forward it to both the previous translator and his/her team (using the corresponding debian-l10n-XXX mailing list). I18N & L10N FAQ for translators? ================================ While reading this, please keep in mind that there is no general procedure within Debian concerning those points, and that in anycase, you should collaborate with your team and How to help the translation effort? ----------------------------------- Choose what you want to translate, make sure that nobody is already working on it (using your debian-l10n-XXX mailing list), translate it, get it reviewed by other native speaker on your l10n mailing list, and provide it to the maintainer of the package (see next point). How to provide a translation for inclusion in a package? -------------------------------------------------------- Make sure that your translation is correct (asking for review on your l10n mailing list) before providing it for inclusion. It will save time for everyone, and avoid the chaos resulting in having several version of the same document in bug repports. The best solution is to fill a regular bug containing the translation against the package. Make sure to use the 'PATCH' tag, and to not use a gravity higher than 'wishlist', since the lack of translation never prevented a program from running. BEST CURRENT PRACTICE concerning l10n ===================================== 1. As maintainer, never edit the translations in any way (even to reformat the layout) without asking to the corresponding l10n mailing list. You risk for example to break the encoding of the file by doing so. Moreover, what you consider as an error can be right (or even needed) in the given language. 2. As translator, if you find an error in the original text, make sure to report it. Often, the translators are the most attentive reader of a given text, and if they don't repport the errors they find, nobody will. 3. In any case, remember that the major issue with l10n is that it requieres several people to cooperate, and that it is very easy to start a flamewar about small problems because of misunderstanding. So, if you have problems with your interlocutor, ask for help on the corresponding l10n mailing list, on debian-i18n, or even on debian-devel (but be aware that l10n discution very often become flamewar on that list :) 4. In any case, cooperation can only be achieved with *mutual respect*. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< -- Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.