On 01/07/2019 18:22, Sam Hartman wrote: >>>>>> "Adrian" == Adrian Bunk <b...@debian.org> writes: > > >> and so forth, since they're the experts on what they would find > >> the most meaningful within the Debian context. > > Adrian> Debian having a position on general political issues can be > Adrian> dangerous. > > Absolutely. > I think that each time we should link what we're doing back to our goal > of making a great free software operating system for our users. > And link back to our priorities of our users and free software. > In this instance, the link is obvious for me. > We as a community have decided that being inclusive helps us make a > great free software operating system. > > Our diversity and publicity teams have decided that supporting pride > month helps a part of our community feel more included. By helping this > part of our community feel included we make it easier for them to > participate. We let them know they matter. > And I at least believe that makes it easier for them to contribute and > thus we get a better operating system. > > I do think that linking any political action back to our goals and not > letting our mission drift is important. > I don't think we do that enough. > It's just that in this instance I personally think the action is > justified. > > Adrian> If Debian as a project is making general political > Adrian> statements, then having a Debconf in Israel without a strong > Adrian> public message regarding the situation of the Palestinian > Adrian> people would make Debian appear to fully support the Israeli > Adrian> side. > > I certainly think we should be making an extra effort to welcome > Palestinian people to our project especially given the Debconf 20 > decision. > People are hurt by the Debconf 20 decision, and I think part of > respecting them is to acknowledge pain that our decision has caused and > to be as welcoming as we can. > > Adrian> Just like many LGBTQ project members might have a problem > Adrian> with Debconf in a country where homosexuality is illegal. > > Yep, absolutely. > > Adrian> Most people from Israel are nice people and clearly welcome > Adrian> in Debian, and so are contributors from countries where > Adrian> homosexuality is illegal. > > Adrian> But if Debian does make political statements, then Debians > Adrian> position on the Israeli-Palestine conflict is a valid issue > Adrian> for discussions on project mailing lists and in GRs. > > I disagree with that. I do think that our position on how that conflict > affects the Debconf venue selection is appropriate for project lists > where debconf venue selection is on-topic. > > > Adrian> The decision that Debconf 2020 will be in Israel can be > Adrian> overridden by GR. > > Yes. > There would be a high cost to doing that, but yes it can. > > Adrian> The easy way would be if Debian would consider itself a > Adrian> purely technical project and abstain from making any > Adrian> political statements, except ones strongly related to being > Adrian> a Linux distribution. > > The easy and painful way. > > > --Sam > Regardless of what some folk say about pridemonth - it is deeply, deeply, sadly, ironic and painful that folk are arguing about pridemeonth in mails interleaved even as a valued contributor announces she is trans.
Tina - welcome to a life of having to defend your every move in every social and anti-social situation - but welcome regardless and with every good wish, as ever, Andy C.
