On 01/07/2019 18:22, Sam Hartman wrote:
>>>>>> "Adrian" == Adrian Bunk <b...@debian.org> writes:
> 
>     >> and so forth, since they're the experts on what they would find
>     >> the most meaningful within the Debian context.
> 
>     Adrian> Debian having a position on general political issues can be
>     Adrian> dangerous.
> 
> Absolutely.
> I think that each time we should link what we're doing back to our goal
> of making a great free software operating system for our users.
> And link back to our priorities of our users and free software.
> In this instance, the link is obvious for me.
> We as a community have decided that being inclusive helps us make a
> great free software operating system.
> 
> Our diversity and publicity teams have decided that supporting pride
> month helps a part of our community feel more included.  By helping this
> part of our community feel included we make it easier for them to
> participate.  We let them know they matter.
> And I at least believe that makes it easier for them to contribute and
> thus we get a better operating system.
> 
> I do think that linking any political action back to our goals and not
> letting our mission drift is important.
> I don't think we do that enough.
> It's just that in this instance I personally think the action is
> justified.
> 
>     Adrian> If Debian as a project is making general political
>     Adrian> statements, then having a Debconf in Israel without a strong
>     Adrian> public message regarding the situation of the Palestinian
>     Adrian> people would make Debian appear to fully support the Israeli
>     Adrian> side.
> 
> I certainly think we should be making an extra effort to welcome
> Palestinian people to our project especially given the Debconf 20
> decision.
> People are hurt by the Debconf 20 decision, and  I think part of
> respecting them is to acknowledge pain that our decision has caused and
> to be as welcoming as we can.
> 
>     Adrian> Just like many LGBTQ project members might have a problem
>     Adrian> with Debconf in a country where homosexuality is illegal.
> 
> Yep, absolutely.
> 
>     Adrian> Most people from Israel are nice people and clearly welcome
>     Adrian> in Debian, and so are contributors from countries where
>     Adrian> homosexuality is illegal.
> 
>     Adrian> But if Debian does make political statements, then Debians
>     Adrian> position on the Israeli-Palestine conflict is a valid issue
>     Adrian> for discussions on project mailing lists and in GRs.
> 
> I disagree with that.  I do think that our position on how that conflict
> affects the Debconf venue selection is appropriate for project lists
> where debconf venue selection is on-topic.
> 
> 
>     Adrian> The decision that Debconf 2020 will be in Israel can be
>     Adrian> overridden by GR.
> 
> Yes.
> There would be a high cost to doing that, but yes it can.
> 
>     Adrian> The easy way would be if Debian would consider itself a
>     Adrian> purely technical project and abstain from making any
>     Adrian> political statements, except ones strongly related to being
>     Adrian> a Linux distribution.
> 
> The easy and painful way.
> 
> 
> --Sam
> 
Regardless of what some folk say about pridemonth - it is deeply,
deeply, sadly, ironic and painful that folk are arguing about
pridemeonth in mails interleaved even as a valued contributor announces
she is trans.

Tina - welcome to a life of having to defend your every move in every
social and anti-social situation - but welcome regardless and with every
good wish, as ever,

Andy C.

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