Dne, 21. 10. 2014 04:06:23 je Marty napisal(a):
On 10/20/2014 03:45 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
After much vitriolic gnashing of teeth from those opposed to systemd,
I wonder... What is a better alternative? And it can't be sysvinit.
Why not? I do not see sysvinit -- or any other legacy init system, for
that matter -- as contradicting the following:
Whichever one the user wants is the best. The users should decide,
individually and collectively. The distro should be the testbed for
new ideas, with users trying out and choosing solutions that work
best for them. Debian should not make that choice for users.
"Upstreams" should not make that choice for Debian.
I'll second that. There has been much gnashing of teeth and talking
about forks and pitchforks on this list. Instead of talking of
catastrophic upheavals, such as systemd or forking, why not talk of
refreshing/refurbishing/maintaining sysvinit and other existing
systems? After all, we probably wouldn't be dealing with this hot
systemd potato now had sysvinit been maintained intensely, actively,
and with adequate manpower through all these years. Instead, it has
been left more or less bitrotting on savannah (kudos to the few
maintainers working on it despite the hostile stance of the Linux
community), and this major upheaval is now the result.
This is official Debian Policy but some people seem upset about it.
Exactly. Instead of all the ire, sysvinit & alternatives are in dire
need of some love. Instead of reinventing the square wheel, much of
this misguided energy could be directed toward patching up the old
wheels which, after all, had been serving us -- and serving us well --
for the last 20 years.
I hope this just a misunderstanding that gets cleared up after the
dust settles and everyone starts talking again, instead of just
yelling at each other.
Ditto. I hope some defectors come back to Debian and realize that if
they give Debian/upstream packages some work, many bitrotten packages
may be reinstated into Debian main, without having to make a blend/fork
or whatever. For the benefit of us all.
So, what would you all propose? For a server? Or for a user
desktop?
Or something that fulfills both scenarios? And why?
We all should be able to propose our ideal solution with a reasonable
expectation that if it's a good idea, and somebody does the work, it
could be adopted and help other people, without being unduly hindered
by a software bundle laying exclusive claim to PID 1.
1. Reviving the existing init systems. Modernizing them, making them
into true, interchangeable drop-in replacements of each other, which do
the task assigned, and do it well. Each of them accomplishing at least
the common subset of tasks an init system is supposed to provide.
2. Complementing them with existing or new tools (again, drop-in
interchangeable replacements of each other) which build on them and
provide the next layer. For example, the kernel autofs facility
provides very nice automounting and could be deployed to the majority
of desktop installs (instead of being just an optional package, as it
is now), thus making the various automount daemons of the various
desktop environments/file managers virtually superfluous. As a further
example, the former udev (prior to being merged into systemd) has
already been forked and could/will serve us well for years to come. And
so on.
We don't need another Windows,
We don't need to know the way /home
All we want is life beyond the Thunderdome
--
Kinda regards,
my beast washes
Klistvud
http://bufferoverflow.tiddlyspot.com
Certifiable Loonix Oozer #481801 Please reply to the list, not to
me.
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