> I see Alligate as an excellent compliment to our Imail 8.15/Declude > 1.82 setup.
i.e., it's a completely non-Declude-related product, whose vendor spammed you on the Declude list. And you don't have problem with that, because I don't think you've seen it before on other lists. It's so brazen that you can't believe it's spam. But it is. > I for one was thankful to learn about it through this list, as we've > been struggling with finding an SMTP filtering gateway to sit in > front of our working, stable Imail/Declude setup. "Working, stable": so why are you looking for a gateway? Somebody who truly regards their single MX/mailbox server as stable (one might define this as "coping under peak observed load with no user-facing effects") wouldn't be "struggling" to find a gateway. They might be _browsing_ for a gateway in their idle time and not really pursuing it. But If you're actively "struggling," I can't imagine which Internet you're using that's making it so hard to demo and decide on -- using good ol' "pull technology" -- a suitable solution. And: why haven't you posted to the list about this before, if you creally onsider what you're seeking an innocent "compliment" to Declude that can be readily discussed and even advertised on this list? > I didn't have any prior experience with Alligate or Brian so my > reading of the announcement was strictly informational. Brochurespeak euphemized as "information"! I've gotta hand it to ya. You're totally on board with this thing. Nonetheless, I shall continue to state my case. > I don't see Alligate being a competitor to Imail or SmarterMail. It > doesn't provide pop3, imap, webmail, or anything of the things that > our customers call their mail server. It's disingenuous to claim that IMail and SmarterMail are both not used as wrapper MTAs for Declude fronting either internal mailbox servers or remote MXs. The number of people on this list offering such service undermines your position. > It could compete against Declude. Except it works at the initial > SMTP connection level (Pre processing) whereas Declude works after > the SMTP connection is complete (Post processing). It is in fact somewhat comparable to IMGate (PostFix) which as I mentioned is a maybe-free solution that has been advertised on the IMail list for quite a while, by the vociferous and often-wrong Len Conrad. But you're not getting the difference. IMGate is sneakily named IMGate to piggyback on the IMail brand, sure, and the relationship is tenuous at best (only some IMail-aware sync scripts make it anything different from a PostFix HOWTO). I've always been offended by this misleading quality, and I've gotten into bitter wars with Len when it seems that he is specifically upselling the "pay" version to IT newbies that he knows, based on their basic knowledge of SMTP and DNS, will have no chance of following the cookbook themselves. But when he cools off on that, I think his promotion is markedly different; it still intrinsically rubs me the wrong way, given how little he actually knows about IMail, but at least it's more PostFix zealotry than greed. And he at least helps a lot of people with vendor-neutral DNS and SMTP practices. But Alligate is *only* commercial, and has nothing to do with Declude other than being a possible competitor. I don't care about the hamstrung 10-connection version. There are plenty of free gateway-only MTAs that have no connection limits, and that ALSO have nothing to do with Declude! The difference is that their vendors don't spam this list, without putting any current effort into the Declude community. > If Declude offered a stable pre-processing solution, I for one would > sign up immediately. And until then, anyone can spam? I'll get on it. > As I am not aware of any information from Declude stating they have > a solution for this, we've all had to look elsewhere (5XX, Vamsoft, > IMGate, etc). 5XXSink is free. ORF is not advertised here by the vendor. IMGate is not advertised here by the vendor and may be free. > Dictionary attacks are killing us, as is the volume of spammers > hitting our Imail box. ANYTHING to minimize what Imail/Declude has > to process, without costing and arm and a leg, or a forklift upgrade > is welcome! Like I said, I hope we get some more spam so you can see how little you actually believe this. > Alligate is a step above the 5XXSINK, by including tarpitting, > detailed text logs, secondary SMTP AUTH port, connection blocking, > etc. You mean a big shrink-wrapped software company wrote a more fully-featured commercial product than the freeware written by a solo systems programmer? Shocking. > To me it's the right solution at the right time. Sure, because you didn't mind the spam. Had you been spammed by Vamsoft, maybe you'd be able to make a better comparison. > Since we let our Imail support lapse and are holding judgment on > SmarterMail until v3 is released, we're in a technical holding > pattern while the spammers continue to assault our servers. "Assault" your "stable" servers. . . not makum sensum. > I don't think I'm alone, which means there is an opportunity for > someone and a potential market. And while there's a market, spam on? > While I love all this stuff, I have to eat too, and don't fault > anyone for turning my pain into their financial gain so they can > eat, if the value proposition is right. Geez, I don't know why you care about *any* spam. The above statement is like something a spam house would put on their brochure site. > R. Scott Perry got assaulted on the Imail list repeatedly for years > for pushing his wares. I think you are grossly overestimating the amount of "assault" that wasn't conducted by Mr. IMgate himself, Len Conrad. I will go over my archives from the past 4 years if you want to take that claim further. > Imail had a gap-in-functionality, Declude seized the moment and > profited by patching that gap. I was thankful for his repeated > input/arguments and purchased his product - against Imail's own > later offering. When Declude started, it was not a competitor to IMail. Far from it. It only became so with the 8.0 release and the IMail AntiSpam add-on. So your reasoning is spurious (and again not supported by the list archives). > I hope Declude isn't struggling - they are vital to our business. Ask yourself whether you think they are struggling. Some of the most powerful power users on this list (Matt, for example) aren't on the latest, greatest. > I also hope that others aren't silent about other available options, > competitive or otherwise. That statement amazes me. You want more spam on the list. > This list is so great for learning - where else can one go to learn > more about real-world, ISP-level email delivery? Until recently, it was difficult to imagine any other list with the combination of highly technical users, brand loyalty, Windows enthusiasm without total OS partisanship, and product quality that the Declude lists have. Yet I'm not sure that this list can preserve such a reputation if outside vendors think it's an easy target for spam, and while the core product seems to be in a struggle to (re)mature. --Sandy ------------------------------------ Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SpamAssassin plugs into Declude! http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/SPAMC32/download/release/ Defuse Dictionary Attacks: Turn Exchange or IMail mailboxes into IMail Aliases! http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/exchange2aliases/download/release/ http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/ldap2aliases/download/release/ --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude EVA www.declude.com] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". 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