To be quite honest.. if I was *new* and looking at a software language, then what would be far more appealing to me would be a licence that allowed me to fully try before I buy, without restrictions. a Cut Down Version wont make me decide to buy a fully fledged version, because Id have no experience seeing if it does what I think it should. A time period suitable enough for me to determine if the product is valuable to me.. After that time period, I'd either expect to pay a fair price, or to stop using it..
I'd rather Embacardo targeted selling Pro licenses to everyone for $300 rather than a minority at $3000. lol .. Its times like these when I fondly remember Turbo Pascal 7.0 and how wonderful its documentation and simplicity were ;D (and its price) On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Jolyon Smith <jsm...@deltics.co.nz> wrote: > Who said anything about providing “unrestricted full access licenses on an > honour system” ? That’s an extrapolation of an argument nobody is making to > a conclusion that nobody is suggesting. > > > > All I am saying is that imposing a license restriction could be > counter-productive. We can sit and argue the cases that it works for vs the > cases that it doesn’t until the cows come home, all from the comfortable > position of already having access to the Professional/Enterprise/Architect > licenses we already use. > > > > I simply suggest the view that US$1000 doesn’t work in a sufficiently high > proportion of possible and realistic scenarios that it could act as a strong > DISincentive to the very people that the new Start Edition is intended to > attract. The marketing message is “GET DELPHI FOR $200 NOW [*and be > forced to pay $800 more later or lose what you already paid for*]” vs > “FREE FOREVER” > > > > That’s not to say that Delphi itself must be “FREE FOREVER”, only that it > needs a better message than this bait-and-switch if it is to realistically * > *compete** with FREE FOREVER in the space that we are told this new > edition is targeted at, and that IS the space it is competing in. > > > > And do not forget that I still think this is better than what we had > before. J > > > > > > The bigger [potential] problem being that if/when the Starter Edition ** > fails** to attract these new users, Embarcadero will turn around and > declare them a failure, that there isn’t a market for an entry level Delphi, > and that this vindicates and justifies the higher pricing. > > > > Turbo Redux. > > > > *From:* delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] > *On Behalf Of *Kyley Harris > *Sent:* Tuesday, 1 February 2011 14:16 > > *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List > *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Delphi Starter Edition > > > > I understand all your points.. > > > > Now.. Lets do a survey of Delphi developers.. How many people are there > writing software in delphi and providing unrestricted full access licenses > on an Honor system with the expectation that their clients might pay them > later? excluding any trial limits, feature restrictions etc etc, but relying > on a paper licence unsigned that states some rules that might get enforced. > > > > I think the reality is that people will take it if it seems fair, and wont > take it if it doesn't, but there isn't much point worrying about it. > > > > its a buyers market and the real loss will be to embacardo if they have > made a bad decision. > > > > Whats that saying.. Better a million people pirating my software than > pirating the competitions. :) eventually there is a return from someone. > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Jolyon Smith <jsm...@deltics.co.nz> wrote: > > I find it depressing that people still can’t seem to get away from thinking > that people will set out to “cheat” Embarcadero by gaming reasonable license > restrictions. > > > > Most (“most” not “all”) people only “cheat” when they feel that the rules > aren’t fair in the first place. > > > > And as for profit being harder to track than revenue, just how are > Embarcadero going to track/monitor revenue in this area in the first place? > What earnings DO they recognise as relevant revenue? Without requiring that > only registered companies qualify for purchasing these licenses, how do they > expect to compel a set of audited accounts from their Starter licensees ? > > > > My guess: They won’t be enforcing the license terms in this way at all. > They will operate an “honour” system, in which case, making that system fair > and reasonable is the best way to ensure compliance. > > > > > > But the idea is to attract new users, right? Users who do Delphi as a > hobby or who have an idea that **might** make a little money (or maybe a > lot, tho in that latter case I don’t think Pro license costs will > necessarily hold them back). > > > > Comparing to another of my hobbies (photography), if I spend $1000 on > printing photos that I sell to my friends/colleagues for $1000, have I > “made” $1000 ? > > > > If Embarcadero were licensing me my camera they would say “yes”, even tho > my hobby is a break-even activity for me (allowing only for directly > measureable costs, and not other costs that are involved). And once I tip > over that $1000 *revenue*, my license costs go up immensely, and if I > don’t pay up, not only do I not get access to the bigger/better/brighter > features (that I don’t actually need, since by definition I didn’t use them > to get that far in the first place) but I also lose the right to use the > tools I already paid for!! > > > > I think I’d choose a different camera, wouldn’t you ? > > > > In the grand scheme of things I don’t see the idea of a revenue limit a > problem per se, but $1000 really isn’t very much and by no means establishes > an “ability to pay” for Professional licenses on an on-going basis. What if > I “earn” $1000 in the first 6 months from a flood of donations from > interested users etc. I am compelled to shell out $800 to remain within the > terms of my license. But then the donations dry up after that, reducing to > perhaps $500-$800 over the next 12 months? > > > > I don’t think this is an entirely fantastical situation to imagine. > > > > > > Don’t get me wrong, I think Delphi Starter is better than what we had > before (i.e. nothing) but this particular aspect of the license is worrying > (in terms of what it suggests in the thinking of those behind the > initiative). > > > > > > > > *From:* delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] > *On Behalf Of *Kyley Harris > *Sent:* Tuesday, 1 February 2011 13:04 > > > *To:* NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List > *Subject:* Re: [DUG] Delphi Starter Edition > > > > I would think Students too.. > > > > And I guess if you actually start making a $1000 they figure its enough to > pay for the software and then keep making money :D > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Jeremy North <jeremy.no...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > The $1000 revenue limit is also bizarrely low imho - it's high enough to > > worm it's way around any "non-commercial use" restriction, but not high > > enough to realistically be anything other than a "non-commercial use > only" > > restriction in all but name. > > It is targeted at open source or hobbyists developers. I don't see any > issues with the limit. > > Is the $1000 per year or a running total? > > _______________________________________________ > NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list > Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz > Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi > Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: > unsubscribe > > > > > -- > Kyley Harris > Harris Software > +64-21-671-821 > > > _______________________________________________ > NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list > Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz > Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi > Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: > unsubscribe > > > > > -- > Kyley Harris > Harris Software > +64-21-671-821 > > _______________________________________________ > NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list > Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz > Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi > Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: > unsubscribe > -- Kyley Harris Harris Software +64-21-671-821
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