Hi Kyley,

I agree with you. I wish Pro licenses to everyone for $300 :)

Have a nice day

Regards
Leigh
From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On 
Behalf Of Kyley Harris
Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2011 3:05 p.m.
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
Subject: Re: [DUG] Delphi Starter Edition

To be quite honest..

if I was *new* and looking at a software language, then what would be far more 
appealing to me would be a licence that allowed me to fully try before I buy, 
without restrictions. a Cut Down Version wont make me decide to buy a fully 
fledged version, because Id have no experience seeing if it does what I think 
it should. A time period suitable enough for me to determine if the product is 
valuable to me.. After that time period, I'd either expect to pay a fair price, 
or to stop using it..

I'd rather Embacardo targeted selling Pro licenses to everyone for $300 rather 
than a minority at $3000. lol ..

Its times like these when I fondly remember Turbo Pascal 7.0 and how wonderful 
its documentation and simplicity were ;D (and its price)


On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Jolyon Smith 
<jsm...@deltics.co.nz<mailto:jsm...@deltics.co.nz>> wrote:
Who said anything about providing "unrestricted full access licenses on an 
honour system" ?  That's an extrapolation of an argument nobody is making to a 
conclusion that nobody is suggesting.

All I am saying is that imposing a license restriction could be 
counter-productive.  We can sit and argue the cases that it works for vs the 
cases that it doesn't until the cows come home, all from the comfortable 
position of already having access to the Professional/Enterprise/Architect 
licenses we already use.

I simply suggest the view that US$1000 doesn't work in a sufficiently high 
proportion of possible and realistic scenarios that it could act as a strong 
DISincentive to the very people that the new Start Edition is intended to 
attract.  The marketing message is "GET DELPHI FOR $200 NOW [and be forced to 
pay $800 more later or lose what you already paid for]" vs "FREE FOREVER"

That's not to say that Delphi itself must be "FREE FOREVER", only that it needs 
a better message than this bait-and-switch if it is to realistically *compete* 
with FREE FOREVER in the space that we are told this new edition is targeted 
at, and that IS the space it is competing in.

And do not forget that I still think this is better than what we had before.  :)


The bigger [potential] problem being that if/when the Starter Edition *fails* 
to attract these new users, Embarcadero will turn around and declare them a 
failure, that there isn't a market for an entry level Delphi, and that this 
vindicates and justifies the higher pricing.

Turbo Redux.

From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz<mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz> 
[mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz<mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz>] On 
Behalf Of Kyley Harris
Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2011 14:16

To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
Subject: Re: [DUG] Delphi Starter Edition

I understand all your points..

Now.. Lets do a survey of Delphi developers.. How many people are there writing 
software in delphi and providing unrestricted full access licenses on an Honor 
system with the expectation that their clients might pay them later? excluding 
any trial limits, feature restrictions etc etc, but relying on a paper licence 
unsigned that states some rules that might get enforced.

I think the reality is that people will take it if it seems fair, and wont take 
it if it doesn't, but there isn't much point worrying about it.

its a buyers market and the real loss will be to embacardo if they have made a 
bad decision.

Whats that saying.. Better a million people pirating my software than pirating 
the competitions. :) eventually there is a return from someone.


On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Jolyon Smith 
<jsm...@deltics.co.nz<mailto:jsm...@deltics.co.nz>> wrote:
I find it depressing that people still can't seem to get away from thinking 
that people will set out to "cheat" Embarcadero by gaming reasonable license 
restrictions.

Most ("most" not "all") people only "cheat" when they feel that the rules 
aren't fair in the first place.

And as for profit being harder to track than revenue, just how are Embarcadero 
going to track/monitor revenue in this area in the first place?  What earnings 
DO they recognise as relevant revenue?  Without requiring that only registered 
companies qualify for purchasing these licenses, how do they expect to compel a 
set of audited accounts from their Starter licensees ?

My guess: They won't be enforcing the license terms in this way at all.  They 
will operate an "honour" system, in which case, making that system fair and 
reasonable is the best way to ensure compliance.


But the idea is to attract new users, right?  Users who do Delphi as a hobby or 
who have an idea that *might* make a little money (or maybe a lot, tho in that 
latter case I don't think Pro license costs will necessarily hold them back).

Comparing to another of my hobbies (photography), if I spend $1000 on printing 
photos that I sell to my friends/colleagues for $1000, have I "made" $1000 ?

If Embarcadero were licensing me my camera they would say "yes", even tho my 
hobby is a break-even activity for me (allowing only for directly measureable 
costs, and not other costs that are involved).  And once I tip over that $1000 
revenue, my license costs go up immensely, and if I don't pay up, not only do I 
not get access to the bigger/better/brighter features (that I don't actually 
need, since by definition I didn't use them to get that far in the first place) 
but I also lose the right to use the tools I already paid for!!

I think I'd choose a different camera, wouldn't you ?

In the grand scheme of things I don't see the idea of a revenue limit a problem 
per se, but $1000 really isn't very much and by no means establishes an 
"ability to pay" for Professional licenses on an on-going basis.  What if I 
"earn" $1000 in the first 6 months from a flood of donations from interested 
users etc.  I am compelled to shell out $800 to remain within the terms of my 
license.  But then the donations dry up after that, reducing to perhaps 
$500-$800 over the next 12 months?

I don't think this is an entirely fantastical situation to imagine.


Don't get me wrong, I think Delphi Starter is better than what we had before 
(i.e. nothing) but this particular aspect of the license is worrying (in terms 
of what it suggests in the thinking of those behind the initiative).



From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz<mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz> 
[mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz<mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz>] On 
Behalf Of Kyley Harris
Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2011 13:04

To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
Subject: Re: [DUG] Delphi Starter Edition

I would think Students too..

And I guess if you actually start making a $1000 they figure its enough to pay 
for the software and then keep making money :D


On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Jeremy North 
<jeremy.no...@gmail.com<mailto:jeremy.no...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> The $1000 revenue limit is also bizarrely low imho - it's high enough to
> worm it's way around any "non-commercial use" restriction, but not high
> enough to realistically be anything other than a "non-commercial use only"
> restriction in all but name.
It is targeted at open source or hobbyists developers. I don't see any
issues with the limit.

Is the $1000 per year or a running total?
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Harris Software
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