Great description of the How, Why, Scope, Outcome, Rationale, etc. Should it be captured for the wiki? On Feb 21, 2011 6:31 PM, "Christoph Noack" <christ...@dogmatux.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > this might also be a mail that'll get a bit longer ... sorry for that in > advance :-) And this it might be the last one for today, please bear > with me while I want to express a warm "Welcome" to the ones who newly > arrived: hi Catalin, hello Sean! > > Okay, back to the initial topic, the "motif". Where to start? Well, I've > carefully read all the mails in the thread once again and tried to > understand the different opinion, proposals, ideas, concerns, ... But, > there might be some misunderstandings on my side, so please express your > thoughts as well. > > > *** Topic "What? Why? And how?" *** > > When I browsed through the comments, and also the concerns summarized by > Mike, I've noticed that some of us (like me *g*) might not yet fully > know what this initiative is about. Thus, I'd like to summarize the idea > how I got it - just to make :-) > > In Scope: The aim is to create a unique motif [1] that helps to let our > visual artwork to appear more unified by taking account the already > established branding guidelines [2]. The motif is created by a > collaborative process that takes place on the Design Team mailing list. > Besides the motif itself, documentation and examples will be made > available to ease its use. > > Out of scope: The initiative is not meant to ... > * Replace the current branding / visual design guidelines > * Change the logo to a larger extend > * Rush the (some time ago) announced Community Branding process > that might still take place if required > > Rationale: The visual artwork created over the last months (product, > website, promotion, ...) already differ in its style. The motif is > required to strengthen the visual consistency of us - referring to both > the community and the product. > > Outcome: As Nik already said in another mail, everything will be > discussed on this list and ideas will be posted on the wiki. Here I'd > like to add that (although it might be quite natural) it might be > insanely helpful to address some of our "products" - like Nik already > for the website (explaining his thoughts). > > > *** In-Between Documentation *** > > But this leads to the "how" it will be made. And here I'd also like to > comment - a lot of people will be addressed (maybe concerned, so to > say). So although I understand Nik's thoughts with regard to "how many > stakeholders are part of the game", I propose to at least communicate a > "daily" (given the current schedule) status to one of the official > communication channels like the TDF Planet. > > So, Nik, your "neglected" blog needs to be there *g*. Otherwise, I fear, > a larger part of the community won't understand why the motif is so > important ... for most it might just be anything. > > To me (purely personal impression), this seemed to work rather well in > the past - even if we had to strongly focus on certain things. For > example, some concerns by Sean might be reduced when knowing that some > of his questions are answered in the blogs I wrote in the past ... so if > anybody wants to have a look at the first steps of our community and the > initial branding, I'd recommend starting here: > http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/agreeing-on-childs-name-simple-task.html > > By the way, the nice things Nik posted concerning the meaning of single > elements (e.g. pale inner border --> depth of paper stack) need to be > documented as well. Although here "off topic", somehow important to > me :-) > > > *** Available Stuff *** > > When we started with LibreOffice, the thing that might be close to a > motive was the "triangle pattern" that can e.g. be found here: > http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/11/libreoffice-33-artwork-improvements_18.html > > Advantages: Unique, perfect "fit" to the document symbol, neutral > > Disadvantages: Required a lot of space, needed to be re-positioned > sometimes (different edges, so the intended branding effect was less > strong) > > > *** Thoughts *** > > Of course, most of these explanations (or let's call it "tries") cannot > hinder creativity ... or (even better) stop people from digging even > deeper into this. Since Paulo made some thoughtful statements concerning > how he perceives the project, here is a link to some information > Thorsten put together a while ago. Maybe it helps to incorporate some of > his thoughts ... > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Visual_Identity_Briefing > > > *** Topic "Stock Photography" *** > > Having own stock photography is a great idea, and something which was > badly missing for OpenOffice.org. And although some of us might own > nifty DSLRs, there might also be other sources ... we might ask there as > well? > > Like the LibreOffice community, there are other groups being e.g. > addicted to photography. I'm sure that some of them might help us - very > similar to how we currently get "hit" by people's friendliness with > regard to the foundation funding initiative. > > Or, we might cooperate with photo magazines that usually do some kind of > "challenge" (although I don't like the word and its meaning). For > example, one of the German publishers that were very supportive during > the last years, both offers IT magazines and a photography magazine. > > And, Dmitri Popov, a kind person I've met several times at conferences, > is an extraordinary photographer ... maybe we can ask him if sooner or > later? > http://dmpop.homelinux.com/piwigo/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/dmpop/ > > > Okay, let's continue with some comments below ... > > > Am Dienstag, den 22.02.2011, 01:02 +1100 schrieb Nik: >> On 2/21/2011 7:02 PM, Mike Houben wrote: >> > Am 20.02.2011 um 15:18 schrieb Nik: >> > >> >> *So the schedule looks like this:* >> >> Brainstorm ideas: Monday 21st Feb - Tuesday 22nd Feb. >> >> Design vectors: Wednesday 23rd Feb - Thursday 24th Feb. >> >> Decision: Friday 25th Feb. >> >> Revisions: Saturday 26th Feb. >> >> Finalised: Sunday 27th Feb. >> > Wy we have to rush on this? After some initial presentations on this List I had some Loooooong Discussions (FOSDEM was for me nearly only "NOACK" ;-) He is nice, but don't wan't to start a discussion with him, you end talking hours/days with him ;) - You should listen to him. He knows his stuff). > >> Christoph was understandably concerned about resources/time for the >> coordination of this task. >> That resource is me. The time is mine. >> Christoph is in support of this, as I have volunteered to do things >> (document progress) that would usually fall to him (or Bernhard) and >> occupy their time. >> Christoph and I go a ways back, he knows I value his input, and I'm >> pretty certain he reciprocates =) > > True, of course :-) > > But I think I get Mike's concern - it is not only the resources, but > also how to get others informed that things are "decided" - maybe even > without their knowledge. That makes it usually hard to get some > understanding afterwards. But, this is my understanding, the number of > changes is limited anyway. > > [...] >> > My Schedule-idea is a lot slower, because we have something already >> in place so we can take time to work on the new Design motifs. It's >> never a good idea to hurry in an FOSS-Community and to do it right and >> for all possible aspects we should take a really slow but INTENSIV >> Schedule. >> > >> That is the traditional wisdom yes, but you cannot apply that to every >> circumstance. >> I need you to understand that this Time schedule is not "rushed", it is >> focused, yes, fast-paced, certainly, but "rushed" suggests there is no >> forethought/planning or time to reflect and improve. >> That is not the case here. It is possible to work efficiently and that >> is what I propose. Anyone who has worked in a Design firm is capable of >> (and indeed, familiar with) rising to the challenge. > > Maybe this matches nicely with what I've suggested before - it might > appear "rushed" if people cannot follow the progress and, thus, don't > understand what's going on. Then we fall into the "not invented here" > trap - both within the Design team, and within the rest of the > community. > > Usually, this can be avoided by trust by knowing that people do it > right ... simple, isn't it? ;-) But how should others (even outside the > Design team) know? This surely has to be taken into account. > > >> > Everyone should present his Ideas/Wishes/Presentations on his >> personal Wikipage and we will present this ideas like that to the >> others. If we have this, we can discuss and "vote" for the ideas here >> on the Mailing list and make a Schedule on the Ideas we all have. >> This will happen, it will be discussed on this list and ideas will be >> posted on the wiki. >> Everyone will have a chance to participate, it will be conducted openly >> for all to see. >> No one reports to me, I'm simply coordinating efforts. > > Concerning the latter: I'm very thankful for this, because this is a > very tough part ... > > >> > [I think the Feature Request on many sites works like this. You make >> a List with a little (or big) Presentation of every idea and the User >> (outside and inside) can vote on the ideas.] >> > >> > If we really wan't to rush this, I think that all of my ideas will >> not see the light the outside of my head and will be presented to your >> eyes. This would also be dismotivating for some others here. > >> Mike, work with me here. No one will be prohibited from adding ideas, >> EVERYONE will have a chance to contribute. >> We cannot wait until it is convenient for everyone to participate, >> because such a time will never come. > > Mmh, might it be helpful to "affirm" that the idea matters, not the > perfect visual representation (now)? In this case, the limited time can > be spent on ideas ... to me, a scan / photograph of a simple "paper and > pencil" sketch is totally sufficient to communicate the idea. > > [...] > >> If we proceed and succeed, we might have a new confidence in this agile >> method of working. And a Motif to boot. >> If we fail, we will have laid the ground-work for future completion of >> this task. >> No harm done either way. > > True, didn't think about that :-) > >> > Places where I think we have to rethink: >> > >> > - LibreOffice Product Placement Website >> > - Community Website >> > - Some specialised Marketing Pages... >> > - Other Graphical things (..pleas insert your places here..) > >> What you list here certainly needs attention, but you are a member of >> the marketing team also, you should be aware that much collateral is >> being purchased, many conferences being held, much advertising that >> needs a professional touch. The above points focus on the website in a >> narrow manner, the design of a Motif would benefit EVERYTHING that is >> Designed for the LibO project, not just web. And right now, that is what >> is asked of the Design team. To make Designs the whole community can >> use/appropriate. > > Might there be a slight misunderstanding - I don't know ... from what I > understand, Mike wanted to make sure that the motif will work well when > used in different contexts. For example, I started to work on a "normal" > advertisement that will get printed. Our "screen optimized" design falls > pretty short with regard to these requirements ... > > So either we take this into account, or we consider the motif as a first > "high level" step. And by the way, since I've talked about trust into > people, maybe it helps you Mike to know that Nik is aware about "usage > in context": > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Art/Visual_Concept_Proposals#Nikash_SINGH > > And, Nik also really knows how closed processes and behind-the-scenes > decisions can discourage people from actively participating ... I'm sure > he takes care. On the other hand, it just feels great to see that you, > Mike, pay so much attention to be inclusive as possible! > > >> I hope that goes some way to addressing your concerns on the matter. >> And I hope you'll find time to join in the discussion and ideation the >> next few days. > > Okay, my time is up ... so no brainstorming today, just the comments and > questions above. I don't know whether they help anybody, but at least to > me, these reflective thoughts were helpful. To be honest, I'm a bit > tired ... so please bear with me if anything seems weird / less > understandable. > > Finally: Nik, Mike, Rob ... thank you all for your effort, your ideas, > your involvement. > > > Good night :-) > > Christoph > > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motif_%28visual_arts%29 > > [2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
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