Hi all, I really appreciate the conversation here. I take full responsibility for not being committed after the release I was under allot of pressure. Having said that I will be very upset seeing this project retired. And I am fully committed to help it grow now. That why I say +1 stay in the incubator and make it work.
Warm regards Guy On Tue, Oct 2, 2018, 18:35 Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> wrote: > Thanks Nadav for the update. > > Another focus should really be on the community. To be successful, the > project needs a wide & diverse community. > > We can discuss about some actions to try to build this community, but > right now, it's not good enough. > > Regards > JB > > On 02/10/2018 10:26, Nadav Har Tzvi wrote: > > Hey, > > I was away for a vacation and had some pressure at my daily job before > > that, now all of that has cleared up. Yaniv and I started integration > right > > before my vacation on the recent re-implementation of the Python SDK and > > the PySpark SDK. We work on integration in the level of configuration > files > > prepared by the leader and pulled by the executor, these files are used > to > > configure storage, logging and the generation of the Amaterasu runtime. > > We are really a few steps away from finishing it. > > I expect that if we can put an effort into this in the upcoming weekend, > we > > can finally close this feature and move on to the next task. > > > > Cheers, > > Nadav > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 10:28, Davor Bonaci <da...@apache.org> wrote: > > > >> Any comments? Anyone? > >> > >> Option 1: start a vote to retire the podling and move the project into > your > >> own repository. > >> Option 2: keep things as-is for a few months and re-assess. > >> > >> I'd say Option 2 requires a minimum of 3 people explicitly saying that > they > >> want to continue trying and contributing. > >> > >> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 8:13 PM Davor Bonaci <da...@apache.org> wrote: > >> > >>> Thanks Yaniv for your comments. > >>> > >>> - After the release of 0.2.0 the community became very quiet. I > think > >>>> that at this point in the life of the project it is natural, as we > >> all > >>>> doing this in our free time and the release was a major effort that > >>>> all of > >>>> us (after talking to members in the community) had to compensate > for > >>>> in our > >>>> day jobs and families. > >>>> With that said, we shouldn't have gone so quiet. I think we can all > >>>> agree this is not acceptable for so long (if at all). > >>>> > >>> > >>> Not sure I agree: it is not natural for projects in the Incubator to be > >>> quiet. It does happen to projects that are getting obsolete/irrelevant, > >>> often after many years as TLPs. The release usually *increases* > activity > >>> around the project as new users come, ask questions, start > contributing, > >>> etc. > >>> > >>> On the other hand, totally fine for people to go quiet. The problem > isn't > >>> around anybody going quiet, but the fact of nobody new arriving. Is > there > >>> any evidence of any usage of the release? Anybody hitting any problem? > >> Any > >>> lack of documentation? Any bugfixes? That's the core of the problem. > >>> > >>> > >>>> - It is very critical at this point to grow the community. Going > back > >>>> to > >>>> my first point, as long as we are such a small community, efforts > >> like > >>>> releasing a version will set us back, and the last release is a > good > >>>> example for that danger. > >>>> > >>> > >>> Not sure I agree: releases usually pick up the activity, pick up new > >>> users, as new features now make the project more attractive. I don't > >> think > >>> I've ever seen an argument where "releasing a version sets us back". > >>> Especially the *first* one. > >>> > >>> - Grow the community. BTW I think this is one reason we should > >> consider > >>>> staying an Apache project, I think that with the release, we should > >>>> also > >>>> shift some focus to growing the community. This is an issue I see > >> other > >>>> projects struggling with, this includes TLPs such as Apache Arrow > >> (in a > >>>> recent thread on their dev list) and I don't think there is one > >> answer > >>>> on > >>>> how to do it, and I spent some time on other lists to see if they > >> have > >>>> solutions. I think we can do many things to fix this, and it's more > >> of > >>>> a > >>>> trial and error process for most projects. Things we can (and > should > >>>> start > >>>> doing immediately) includes doing more public presentations (and I > >>>> have to > >>>> give a shout-out @Nadav Har Tzvi <nadavhart...@gmail.com> that > >>>> presented > >>>> in two conferences recently), write blog posts, and we should all > >>>> invest > >>>> time in doing so. But one thing we also need to do is actively > >> looking > >>>> for > >>>> more contributors. If anyone here has someone they think is a good > >> fit, > >>>> let's try to get them onboard. > >>>> > >>> > >>> Outreach (blogs, talks, etc.) can help, but they help you *scale*. I > >> think > >>> the project hasn't demonstrated early user fit -- and trying to scale > >>> before establishing that often doesn't yield results. For example, if > you > >>> were to throw Amaterasu in front of 1000 people, how many would join > the > >>> community? If only a few, it is probably a bad idea to do it. (I worry > it > >>> is less than a few.) > >>> > >>> The problem is likely with the user fit, and can be solved only by user > >>> development -- most of which often happens before scaling, before > >> building > >>> the community, and before joining the Incubator. > >>> > >>> It is really, really, really hard to build the community before early > >> user > >>> fit. > >>> > >>> I think that the next few months are more about staying in the > incubating > >>>> or not, it is do-or-die for Amaterasu. We need to fix the situation > so I > >>>> wouldn't rush in this situation to consider retiring quite yet. > >>>> > >>> > >>> I'm totally fine with leaving things as-is for a few more months. But, > I > >>> don't think it is realistic to expect changes to the degree necessary > to > >>> graduate. As a result, I think you can use *your time* better. > >>> > >>> * * * > >>> > >>> I'm really sorry to be the messenger of bad news. I don't want to paint > >>> Amaterasu (or your work) in any bad way. I do want you and the project > to > >>> be most successful as possible. > >>> > >>> Please note that I don't gain anything by driving this conversation. In > >>> fact, I lose a lot. Time is a precious resource of everyone -- and I'd > >> like > >>> to make sure that the time *you* have for the project is spent in a way > >>> that is likely to yield results, not trying to achieve various ASF > goals > >>> that may not achievable. (If this is not obvious now, I trust that over > >>> time direct feedback and tough conversations will be appreciated, > instead > >>> of letting you waste time for something unrealistic -- which is what > most > >>> people in my shoes would do.) > >>> > >> > > > > -- > Jean-Baptiste Onofré > jbono...@apache.org > http://blog.nanthrax.net > Talend - http://www.talend.com >
