Hi, I second Davor here. I think it makes sense to think about retiring the podling. I don't see large community around the project (both dev and user).
Regards JB On 02/10/2018 09:27, Davor Bonaci wrote: > Any comments? Anyone? > > Option 1: start a vote to retire the podling and move the project into your > own repository. > Option 2: keep things as-is for a few months and re-assess. > > I'd say Option 2 requires a minimum of 3 people explicitly saying that they > want to continue trying and contributing. > > On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 8:13 PM Davor Bonaci <da...@apache.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Yaniv for your comments. >> >> - After the release of 0.2.0 the community became very quiet. I think >>> that at this point in the life of the project it is natural, as we all >>> doing this in our free time and the release was a major effort that >>> all of >>> us (after talking to members in the community) had to compensate for >>> in our >>> day jobs and families. >>> With that said, we shouldn't have gone so quiet. I think we can all >>> agree this is not acceptable for so long (if at all). >>> >> >> Not sure I agree: it is not natural for projects in the Incubator to be >> quiet. It does happen to projects that are getting obsolete/irrelevant, >> often after many years as TLPs. The release usually *increases* activity >> around the project as new users come, ask questions, start contributing, >> etc. >> >> On the other hand, totally fine for people to go quiet. The problem isn't >> around anybody going quiet, but the fact of nobody new arriving. Is there >> any evidence of any usage of the release? Anybody hitting any problem? Any >> lack of documentation? Any bugfixes? That's the core of the problem. >> >> >>> - It is very critical at this point to grow the community. Going back >>> to >>> my first point, as long as we are such a small community, efforts like >>> releasing a version will set us back, and the last release is a good >>> example for that danger. >>> >> >> Not sure I agree: releases usually pick up the activity, pick up new >> users, as new features now make the project more attractive. I don't think >> I've ever seen an argument where "releasing a version sets us back". >> Especially the *first* one. >> >> - Grow the community. BTW I think this is one reason we should consider >>> staying an Apache project, I think that with the release, we should >>> also >>> shift some focus to growing the community. This is an issue I see other >>> projects struggling with, this includes TLPs such as Apache Arrow (in a >>> recent thread on their dev list) and I don't think there is one answer >>> on >>> how to do it, and I spent some time on other lists to see if they have >>> solutions. I think we can do many things to fix this, and it's more of >>> a >>> trial and error process for most projects. Things we can (and should >>> start >>> doing immediately) includes doing more public presentations (and I >>> have to >>> give a shout-out @Nadav Har Tzvi <nadavhart...@gmail.com> that >>> presented >>> in two conferences recently), write blog posts, and we should all >>> invest >>> time in doing so. But one thing we also need to do is actively looking >>> for >>> more contributors. If anyone here has someone they think is a good fit, >>> let's try to get them onboard. >>> >> >> Outreach (blogs, talks, etc.) can help, but they help you *scale*. I think >> the project hasn't demonstrated early user fit -- and trying to scale >> before establishing that often doesn't yield results. For example, if you >> were to throw Amaterasu in front of 1000 people, how many would join the >> community? If only a few, it is probably a bad idea to do it. (I worry it >> is less than a few.) >> >> The problem is likely with the user fit, and can be solved only by user >> development -- most of which often happens before scaling, before building >> the community, and before joining the Incubator. >> >> It is really, really, really hard to build the community before early user >> fit. >> >> I think that the next few months are more about staying in the incubating >>> or not, it is do-or-die for Amaterasu. We need to fix the situation so I >>> wouldn't rush in this situation to consider retiring quite yet. >>> >> >> I'm totally fine with leaving things as-is for a few more months. But, I >> don't think it is realistic to expect changes to the degree necessary to >> graduate. As a result, I think you can use *your time* better. >> >> * * * >> >> I'm really sorry to be the messenger of bad news. I don't want to paint >> Amaterasu (or your work) in any bad way. I do want you and the project to >> be most successful as possible. >> >> Please note that I don't gain anything by driving this conversation. In >> fact, I lose a lot. Time is a precious resource of everyone -- and I'd like >> to make sure that the time *you* have for the project is spent in a way >> that is likely to yield results, not trying to achieve various ASF goals >> that may not achievable. (If this is not obvious now, I trust that over >> time direct feedback and tough conversations will be appreciated, instead >> of letting you waste time for something unrealistic -- which is what most >> people in my shoes would do.) >> > -- Jean-Baptiste Onofré jbono...@apache.org http://blog.nanthrax.net Talend - http://www.talend.com
