Hello, First of all, I don't think there is a need for a vote on this subject since the impact on the community is rather low. The fact that is discussed in this and other projects as well as inside companies shows that it is not an artificial need but something that might affect how some people feel. Given that we have a volunteer (thanks Michael) who is willing to make this change as transparent as possible for all of us I would suggest to make things easier for him by closing this discussion and helping in reviewing the PR/JIRA.
Best, Stamatis On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:40 AM JiaTao Tao <taojia...@gmail.com> wrote: > Agree with Danny Chan, -1 for this change. > > > Regards! > > Aron Tao > > > Michael Mior <michael.m...@gmail.com> 于2020年8月5日周三 下午6:41写道： > > > My apologies for misinterpreting your previous statement then. However, I > > don't see evidence to support your claims that this will bring no new > > contributors nor make anyone feel more welcome. I'm not claiming that I > can > > point to any specific individual who will be positively impacted by this > > change and I will admit that it's possible that no one will be. However, > I > > think the "disruption" to the project is minimal. > > > > Given that I was the one who proposed the change, I'll add that your > > assessment that this is political is false. No one is ordering this > change. > > It was brought to the community for discussion. > > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 16:44 Viliam Durina <vil...@hazelcast.com> wrote: > > > > > I was surprised that my opposition was evaluated as "not strong". None > of > > > my arguments were countered. I vote -1 too. > > > > > > - This change will not bring any new contributors > > > - No contributor will "feel more welcome" by "merging into main" > instead > > of > > > "merging into master". Nobody even thinks about it. For those who do it > > > might actually feel empowering and satisfying to have some rights > towards > > > the master. Same as nobody is bothered by having a Master's degree. > Maybe > > > we should exclude people with Master's degrees from voting (just > kidding > > > ;-) > > > - This change IS a disruption, meaning the cost is not trivial. Project > > > maintainers have to do work and it's a disruption for everyone who > > checked > > > out the code, for every actual contributor. It's a nuisance to many > > people. > > > - The aim is mainly political. It signifies that a language police can > > come > > > over and order some changes based on extremely weak arguments. In this > > > regard it's distracting and even dangerous. > > > > > > Not doing it would signal to the community that some common sense is > > still > > > left. > > > > > > Viliam > > > > > > On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 at 16:31, Michael Mior <mm...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > > > I don't want to get too into the weeds here since there hasn't been > > > > any strong opposition and it seems like this is a change everyone > > > > (some perhaps reluctantly) are ok with moving forward with. But a > > > > couple comments: > > > > > > > > Has anyone expressed concern? No, but given that main is explicitly > > > > neutral, I'd rather not place the burden on people who may find > > > > terminology offensive to raise the issue. > > > > Do I think about slavery whenever I merge into master? No, but my > > > > ancestors were also not owned as slaves. > > > > > > > > I've opened CALCITE-4147 to track what needs to be done for this. > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CALCITE-4147 > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Michael Mior > > > > mm...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > Le mer. 29 juil. 2020 à 05:55, Ruben Q L <rube...@gmail.com> a > écrit : > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > I would not oppose the renaming, but I must say that I agree with > > Danny > > > > > Chan here. Is this really an issue? Is there any official guideline > > > from > > > > > the ASF about this topic? Has anyone in the Calcite community truly > > > > > expressed any concern about the master branch being called > "master"? > > Do > > > > you > > > > > really think of slavery whenever you "merge into master", or > whenever > > > you > > > > > use the term "master" in this context? > > > > > > > > > > I could understand renaming a "master-slave" architecture into > > > something > > > > > different, since that is clearly a slavery-related terminology. > But, > > as > > > > > other people have already said, not every usage of the word > "master" > > > has > > > > > this connotation. Honestly I see no problem in having a "master > > branch" > > > > > because, in my opinion, it is clear that when we talk about it we > > mean > > > > the > > > > > "reference branch", "principal branch" or (quoting the > > Merriam-Webster > > > > > dictionary) the "original from which copies can be made". > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I am wrong here, but I have the impression that we are fixing > > an > > > > > artificial problem that does not actually exist. If tomorrow > someone > > on > > > > > Twitter says that the term "class" is offensive because it has some > > > > marxist > > > > > connotations, should we rewrite all our Java code? This is an > > extreme, > > > > > stupid example (I hope, although nowadays you never know), but I > > think > > > > you > > > > > know where I am going with my logic... > > > > > > > > > > We need to fight racism but IMHO this is not how to do it. > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > Ruben > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le mer. 29 juil. 2020 à 06:54, Francis Chuang < > > > francischu...@apache.org> > > > > a > > > > > écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > I am also +1 for this change. > > > > > > > > > > > > - It's a simple change that doesn't require a lot of effort and > > > > > > disruption to the code base. > > > > > > - If we follow the links from the article Michael posted, the > term > > > > > > "master" in git does not originate from "master record" but > rather > > > from > > > > > > master/slave. > > > > > > - We make our community more welcoming, diverse and inclusive by > > > > > > switching to a term that is more inclusive. > > > > > > - Sometimes a new word can be more self-explanatory. Recently > > > > > > "blacklist" and "whitelist" was replaced in the Go source code > with > > > > > > "allowlist" and "blocklist" [1] as a case in point. > > > > > > > > > > > > Francis > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://go-review.googlesource.com/c/go/+/236857/ > > > > > > > > > > > > On 29/07/2020 12:30 pm, Matt Burgess wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm a Calcite user and longtime mailing list lurker :) I'd like > > to > > > > > > > share our experience from Apache NiFi, we started such a > > discussion > > > > > > > for NiFi based on existing discussions from Apache Yetus and > > Apache > > > > > > > Accumulo [1]. Our own discussion continued (please see the > linked > > > > > > > email thread) but I believe our community came to a similar > > > consensus > > > > > > > as the Calcite community (and others), that whatever notions > were > > > > > > > educed from the terms, it is more welcoming and purposeful to > > > change > > > > > > > them for the best community experience. The impact to the > > codebase > > > > was > > > > > > > minimal and non-breaking, so we came together to perform the > few > > > > steps > > > > > > > we needed to rename the default branch and search the code for > > > terms > > > > > > > we could simply find-and-replace, plus we updated the Developer > > > > Guide. > > > > > > > Since then, we haven't seen much in the way of confusion or > > > missteps > > > > > > > in our development process. Everyone seems to have taken the > > > changes > > > > > > > in stride, updated what they needed to, and continued with > their > > > > > > > contributions, all the while providing a better atmosphere for > > even > > > > > > > better things to come. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/nifi-dev/202006.mbox/%3cCA+LyY55Mb8xZ35W_9UM=ter+gt_1azhgxmbpdn9edbssnv-...@mail.gmail.com%3e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 9:55 PM Danny Chan < > yuzhao....@gmail.com > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> As a Chinsese, I didn’t understand quite well why the word > > > “master” > > > > can > > > > > > be “slavery”. I often see it as the similiar meaning as “main”, > it > > > > seems to > > > > > > take some time to adapt to new term “main” because I believe most > > of > > > > the > > > > > > developers got used to the word “master”. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> I think this is a relatively low impact change that can > > > potentially > > > > > > >>> make us even more welcoming to new contributors, which is a > > > > benefit to > > > > > > >>> us all :) > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Is this true ? People would always contribute to Calcite if > they > > > > need > > > > > > to, apparently not just because of a branch name. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Best, > > > > > > >> Danny Chan > > > > > > >> 在 2020年7月29日 +0800 AM7:08，Michael Mior <mm...@apache.org>，写道： > > > > > > >>> Actually, the argument that the term "master" in git didn't > > > > originate > > > > > > >>> from master/slave is not true. See the article I linked > > earlier. > > > In > > > > > > >>> any case, I don't think the change hurts anyone other than a > > > brief > > > > > > >>> annoyance when we all have to change our branch name and if > it > > > > makes > > > > > > >>> the project more welcoming to someone, than great. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> -- > > > > > > >>> Michael Mior > > > > > > >>> mm...@apache.org > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Le mar. 28 juil. 2020 à 17:29, Julian Hyde < > > > jhyde.apa...@gmail.com> > > > > a > > > > > > écrit : > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> I agree with you. It’s probably derived from “master” as in > > the > > > > “gold > > > > > > master” [1] which is the mix from which a sound engineer would > cut > > a > > > > record > > > > > > or CD. And who knows where that term came from? > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> But in the end, the origin of the term is irrelevant. The > > > current > > > > > > name is, or may be, unwelcoming to some people, so let’s just > move > > > on. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Julian > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio) < > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio)> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>>> On Jul 28, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Viliam Durina < > > > vil...@hazelcast.com > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> It's not a term related to slavery, it has much broader > > meaning > > > > than > > > > > > "slave > > > > > > >>>>> owner", but any argument is probably vain. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 at 19:43, Julian Hyde < > > > > jhyde.apa...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> I am in favor of renaming ‘master’ to ‘main’. To most > people > > > it > > > > > > doesn’t > > > > > > >>>>>> make any difference. To some, such as potential members > > > > currently > > > > > > outside > > > > > > >>>>>> the community, it makes the project more welcoming. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Very little effort or disruption is required. We’ve > > > identified a > > > > > > potential > > > > > > >>>>>> source of friction, so let’s fix it and move on. > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> Julian > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Jul 28, 2020, at 10:31 AM, Michael Mior < > > mm...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Hi all, > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> You can find some background on this discussion at the > link > > > > below > > > > > > [0]. > > > > > > >>>>>>> This is a topic that has come up regularly among D&I > folks > > at > > > > the > > > > > > ASF. > > > > > > >>>>>>> The short summary is that the term "master" when > referring > > to > > > > a git > > > > > > >>>>>>> branch is a reference to terminology related to slavery. > > I'm > > > > > > >>>>>>> suggesting main because this seems to be what the > developer > > > > > > community > > > > > > >>>>>>> as a whole is gravitating towards. See for example, > > GitHub's > > > > public > > > > > > >>>>>>> roadmap [1] where there are plans to make this change. > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> I'm hoping that this discussion can be focused not on > > whether > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > >>>>>>> has been impacted by such terminology, but how we can > move > > > > > > forward. I > > > > > > >>>>>>> personally believe that if a single person feels more > > welcome > > > > to > > > > > > >>>>>>> contribute because of the change, it's a win. I also > don't > > > > think > > > > > > >>>>>>> making this change needs to be painful. (There are less > > than > > > 20 > > > > > > >>>>>>> relevant references to "master" in the Calcite code.) > > Apache > > > > Mahout > > > > > > >>>>>>> and I believe others have already made this change. > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> I think this is a relatively low impact change that can > > > > potentially > > > > > > >>>>>>> make us even more welcoming to new contributors, which > is a > > > > > > benefit to > > > > > > >>>>>>> us all :) > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> [0] > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.kapwing.com/blog/how-to-rename-your-master-branch-to-main-in-git/ > > > > > > >>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/github/roadmap/issues/63 > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> -- > > > > > > >>>>>>> Michael Mior > > > > > > >>>>>>> mm...@apache.org > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> -- > > > > > > >>>>> Viliam Durina > > > > > > >>>>> Jet Developer > > > > > > >>>>> hazelcast® > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> <https://www.hazelcast.com> 2 W 5th Ave, Ste 300 | San > > Mateo, > > > CA > > > > > > 94402 | > > > > > > >>>>> USA > > > > > > >>>>> +1 (650) 521-5453 | hazelcast.com < > https://www.hazelcast.com > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> -- > > > > > > >>>>> This message contains confidential information and is > > intended > > > > only > > > > > > for the > > > > > > >>>>> individuals named. 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