To say it another way, I would expect that once a roadmap is agreed we would 
ensure there was a CEP for every item. I don't know whether every CEP would 
necessarily be voted into a roadmap, nor whether every item voted on would have 
a CEP before the vote is conducted, and don't have a strongly held position on 
either (but think it's probably better they're not intrinsically tied in either 
direction).


On 01/03/2021, 12:13, "Benedict Elliott Smith" <bened...@apache.org> wrote:

    I guess I meant that I don't foresee roadmap discussions having a hard 
requirement of CEP for all goals we might discuss, though it would probably be 
expected that many of the biggest proposals would already at least have a 
minimal CEP to be filed, you're right. 

    Certainly if an advanced CEP exists I hadn't meant to exclude it, I more 
meant that the CEP process is quite involved and spans the lifetime of the 
work, and a roadmap helps the project decide on goals irrespective of a CEP, 
and helps resource a CEP early in its lifecycle.

    On 01/03/2021, 11:15, "Mick Semb Wever" <m...@apache.org> wrote:

        >
        > I think of a roadmap as a pre-CEP activity for upcoming releases, 
items
        > thereon beginning the CEP process, …
        >


        What about having it the other way around? That the roadmap is a
        visualisation of the CEPs, i.e. those past initial triage that have 
initial
        commitment and momentum. A reflective approach of the roadmap, just a
        visualisation of existing processes, prevents the adding of a new 
process
        to the community. It will also incentivise the thoroughness of new CEPs.

        The benefit of having the roadmap as a separate manual process pre-CEP
        might save us the cost of creating CEPs that get rejected, but I can't 
see
        that actually being a problem for us.

        +1 to having the roadmap, in any form.



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