As a real outsider, IMHO Paul is right.
At times it seems that Cloudstack is a coding hobby rather than a
project or a production quality product.
Who decides what goes into a release? How does this affect the release
schedule?
Who is responsible for meeting the "published" roadmap (of which there
seem to be many) of releases?
How is a system admin that is not part of the project supposed to plan
for upgrade windows?
How does one know when a feature, bug fix or release will be available?
How does the PMC manage function creep in a release, maintain quality
and consistency, reject changes that hurt the overall vision or add too
much complexity?
No one seems to care about documentation but if someone did, how would
they stop undocumented features or features that contradict the
documentation from being incorporated?
Who makes sure that the documentation is correct at the time of the
release?
Release notes are not much help for someone doing a new install or
evaluating Cloudstack.
Without a JIRA entry, how does an end-user who encounters a problem know
that it has been fixed already in the next release?
Without a JIRA entry, how does the community comment on a proposed
change before it gets coded?
If changes are going to be accepted without a JIRA, is there a
definition of a minor fix that does not require a JIRA?
- does not change functionality?
- only affects an "edge case" or cleans up an exception that is not
properly handled?
- only improves code readability or future extensibility?
- does not affect documentation?
Apache projects that are popular and enjoy wide support do have strong
management.
There are other examples where great Apache software is failing to get
recognized because the PMC is not paying attention to the product
management side of things.
I use Apache Jackrabbit which is a quality product with a strong
technical team supporting it.
It has very little following because the documentation and marketing
collateral is very poor.
It gets by because the audience for it is largely software developers
who can read code and can test features to work out the functionality.
It would get a lot more attention if they paid attention to the product
management side of the project.
Cloudstack needs to avoid this situation and unfortunately this takes
effort and some discipline.
Ron
On 29/06/2017 8:03 AM, Will Stevens wrote:
Why are we still using jira instead of the PRs for that communication? Can
we not use issues in github now instead of jira if someone needs to open an
issue but does not yet have code to contribute. If not, jira could still be
used for that.
I think duplicating data between jira and the PR is kind of pointless. I
feel like the github PRs and the cide going in should be the source of
truth, not a random third party tool.
For the 4.9 release notes, i built a tool to generate the release notes
from the PRs merged in that release. I think that is easier and more
accurate than depending on jira since it does not track the actual code
tree.
Thats my 0.02$.
On Jun 29, 2017 5:25 AM, "Paul Angus" <paul.an...@shapeblue.com> wrote:
Such a view of CloudStack is what holds CloudStack back.
It stops users/operators from having any chance of understanding what
CloudStack does and how it does it.
Code for code's sake is no use to anyone.
Jira is about communication between developers and to everyone else.
Kind regards,
Paul Angus
paul.an...@shapeblue.com
www.shapeblue.com
53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London WC2N 4HSUK
@shapeblue
-----Original Message-----
From: Daan Hoogland [mailto:daan.hoogl...@gmail.com]
Sent: 29 June 2017 10:14
To: dev <dev@cloudstack.apache.org>
Subject: Re: JIRA - PLEASE READ
On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Paul Angus <paul.an...@shapeblue.com>
wrote:
+ Release notes will be impossible to create without a proper Jira
history.
And no one will know what has gone into CloudStack.
No they are not mr Grumpy. they should be base on the code anyway, hence on
git, not jira. I do not appose to the use of Jira but it is not required
for good coding practices and as we are not and will not function as a
corporation, jira is an extra for those that grave for it. not a
requirement.
--
Daan
--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
