Reinhard Pötz wrote: > Sylvain Wallez wrote: >> Reinhard Pötz wrote: >>> Sylvain Wallez wrote: >>> >>>> Reinhard Pötz wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Versioning >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> For Cocoon 2 there have been proposals that all odd versions are >>>>> development/alpha versions and all even versions are stable releases. >>>>> >>>>> I like this idea and propose that we follow this versioning schema in >>>>> Cocoon 3: All 3.0.x releases are marked as development versions and we >>>>> clearly explain this on the website and the READMEs of all artifacts. >>>>> >>>>> When we believe that the community and the technology are stable, we do >>>>> a 3.1.0 release. >>>>> >>>>> I think this is less confusing than appending alpha, beta or milestone >>>>> postfixes. >>>>> >>>> I would say the contrary. Let's not forget that most of our users aren't >>>> hard-core developers (they love Cocoon because they can do complex stuff >>>> without programming) and they aren't used to this odd/even versioning >>>> scheme that comes from the Linux kernel. >>>> >>>> Rather than that, it seems to me that most of the "normal" (i.e. non >>>> hard-core hacker) people consider a version without any "beta", >>>> "milestone" or other suffix as an official stable release. A well-known >>>> example is Firefox that goes through a series of milestones, beta and RC >>>> version before releasing a stable version with the same number. Eclipse >>>> does the same. >>>> >>> I don't have a strong opinion on this, except that I don't think that >>> the term milestone doesn't fit very well for us because this would imply >>> that we have like e.g. Eclipse a well-defined roadmap. And as we all >>> know, that's simply not the case. >>> >> Well, although there's no formal roadmaps, there are "big features" that >> more or less define it, isn't it? >> >>> I'm also fine with 3.0-alpha-1, etc. and, see the reasons below, it's >>> probably better to change the proposal into this direction. >>> >>>> Also, I haven't voted for the renaming Corona to Cocoon 3.0 as I was on >>>> vacation, but I really think this is too early. Cocoon 2.2 is just out >>>> and we announce a 3.0. This will most probably lead people to consider >>>> 2.2 as a transition to 3.0 and just not use it, and thus just look >>>> elsewhere. Stated clearly, I have fears that just as Maven almost killed >>>> the developer community for 2.2, announcing a 3.0 now will kill the user >>>> community. >>>> >>> We had three possible routes for Corona: >>> >>> 1) Develop Corona outside of the Cocoon project (e.g. Google, >>> Sourceforge, etc.) >>> 2) Find some alternative name and release it under this codename. >>> 3) Release it as Cocoon 3.0-alpha-x >>> >>> 1) would have been really dangerous IMO. What would people have thought >>> if the former PMC chair created an alternative project that is a >>> reimplementation of Cocoon outside of the oversight of the Cocoon PMC. >>> And that just a few months after his resignation. >>> >> I totally agree with this, and Apache has the necessary rules and >> infrastructure to host experiments/rewrites/revolutions under the >> project's umbrella. >> >>> 2) Many people advised not to invent another codename. Also the name >>> finding game wasn't really successful. Personally I'm not willing to >>> invest any more time into this. >>> >> I don't think there's even a need to play the name game: if the >> experiment/rewrite/revolution is successful, it just takes over the main >> branch (e.g. Catalina that has replaced Tomcat) and otherwise it just >> dies and vanishes. >> >>> 3) Releasing 3.0 comes with the risk that 3.0 never takes off and >>> doesn't attract a broader developer and user community. But as long as >>> we only release alpha software, we can even do a re-rewrite. >>> >> Not sure I follow you here, and how 3.0 or any other name prevents a >> rewrite as long as there hasn't been any stable release. Now if there is >> an ongoing effort on something named "3.0" and suddenly this thing is >> rewritten, this is likely to be interpreted by the community as "we >> don't really know where we're going" which not a good thing. >> >>> Regarding your "too early announced" argument, I'm not so pessimistic. >>> Most people very well understand the difference between production >>> quality and alpha software and that alpha software is no guarantee for >>> anything (time, quality/stability, community). Addtionally we will add >>> warnings to all download pages, READMEs and also adding "alpha" helps. >>> >>> Also other projects demonstrate that having an alpha branch doesn't make >>> most people wait for the final release of the alpha branch (see Tomcat, >>> Jetty, Maven, httpd, etc.). And if you have time to wait, I don't think >>> that you really have to solve a problem. >>> >> I hope you're right. > > As I wrote on my blog, I think that Cocoon has to change fundamentally > (focus on RESTful services, layered architecture and reuse in every Java > environment) in order to survive in the medium to long term. Staying > with Cocoon 2.x will mostly please already existing users but won't be > very attractive for others. > > I wasn't very eager to go for Cocoon 3 at this point of time myself. > Cocoon 3 has been developed completely in the spare time of volunteers > and releasing it will put some pressure on it that I would have liked to > avoid it.
I meant "releasing it as 'Cocoon 3'' will put ... > But keeping it in the whiteboard without a release isn't a solution as well. > > Cocoon 3 is a chance without a guarantee of success. But it's better > than just waiting for some kind of miracle and doing nothing while > Cocoon and its community are fading away. -- Reinhard Pötz Managing Director, {Indoqa} GmbH http://www.indoqa.com/en/people/reinhard.poetz/ Member of the Apache Software Foundation Apache Cocoon Committer, PMC member [EMAIL PROTECTED] ________________________________________________________________________