As much as I would like to I'm very new to the Apache development universe. I've actually been involved through one release cycle and only as a contributor. I wouldn't mind working with a more seasoned person batting around ideas offline to then present to the group though.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Gilles <gil...@harfang.homelinux.org> wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 2015 12:05:27 -0500, Hank Grabowski wrote: > >> You would think so, but Java 6 hasn't been updated since early 2013 and is >> still a quarter or more of the installed Java base. The support for >> highly >> scalable parallel operations that the new Java 8 language features get is >> very tempting though. Could we have a Java 8 branch on the core library >> and release a CM for each of them until the vestigial versions are >> sufficiently low enough on the usage chain? I know there are some >> versioning and release nightmares that could introduce but with the >> parallel functions maybe it would be worth it unlike the changes that 6 to >> 7 would give for the project. >> > > Although the consensus would say "Java 7", but then we'd lose the newer > and even better (hopefully) facilities, and still be "old" when everybody > will have change their phone already. ;-) > > Would you be willing to volunteer with a concrete plan? > > Best, > Gilles > > > > >> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Gilles <gil...@harfang.homelinux.org> >> wrote: >> >> On Thu, 15 Jan 2015 07:52:11 -0500, Hank Grabowski wrote: >>> >>> Good call, Silviu! >>>> >>>> The most recent version of their survey of Plumbr installations (823 in >>>> total) was May of last year, only a few months after Java 8 came out >>>> (link >>>> below). At that time the break down was: Java 5 at 0.4%, Java 6 at 36%, >>>> Java 7 at 61% and Java 8 at 2.5%. I'm still looking for more data on >>>> this, >>>> but Rebel Labs has a similar article (not broken down by version) that >>>> showed that 65% of development was on Java 7 by May of last year too. I >>>> doubt the balance was Java 8 at that point, so there must be a sizable >>>> Java >>>> 6 contingent still. >>>> >>>> One other thing that came to mind with the new Java 8 features is how >>>> that >>>> is supported on Android. As far as I can tell Android KitKat, as well >>>> as >>>> the latest release of the Android Studio and SDK Tools doesn't support >>>> Java >>>> 8 yet. In fact, according to the Android development setup page >>>> versions >>>> between (and including) Gingerbread and KitKat require JDK 6, not 7. I >>>> haven't coded Android recently to know whether it does work on JDK 7 or >>>> if >>>> is just a requirement but it is peculiar that the main instructions call >>>> for JDK 7 installation and then the footnote specifically tells >>>> developers >>>> to pull a different JDK version for those earlier platforms. I can't >>>> tell >>>> where the Java 7 language features were added to Android before the >>>> current >>>> version, Lollipop. I was surprised Lollipop wasn't on their dashboard >>>> but >>>> according to the AppBrain statistics it accounts for far less than 1% of >>>> the installed phones. So best case scenario would be Jelly Bean >>>> supports >>>> 7 >>>> (no indication that's true), which means 85% of Android devices would be >>>> covered if we set a Java 7 minimum. Next best would be KitKat (more >>>> likely >>>> but not according to the install instructions) which means 39%. As for >>>> Java 5, that was needed for pre-Gingerbread Android OS which accounts >>>> for >>>> 0.5% of the market. >>>> >>>> I guess with all of that it's clear that Java 5 is unnecessarily being >>>> maintained at this point. Both surveys of servers and Android show far >>>> less than 1% usage. It seems Java 6 penetration may be still be pretty >>>> substantial, even conservatively at on the order of 25% (if Java 7 and 8 >>>> adoption picked up dramatically in 6 months after the surveys as I >>>> imagine >>>> it did to some extent). So it seems the most reasonable conservative >>>> play >>>> would be to stick with Java 6, especially if we can confirm that between >>>> half to 85% of Android devices can't use Java 7 language features. A >>>> more >>>> aggressive play would be to set a requirement for Java 7. Setting the >>>> minimum at Java 8 at this time seems overly aggressive at this time >>>> though. >>>> >>>> https://plumbr.eu/blog/most-popular-java-environments-in-2014 >>>> >>>> http://pages.zeroturnaround.com/Java-Tools-Technologies.html >>>> >>>> http://source.android.com/source/initializing.html >>>> >>>> https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html >>>> >>>> http://www.appbrain.com/stats/top-android-sdk-versions >>>> >>>> >>> I wonder: Isn't the "end of public updates"[1] (scheduled on April of >>> this year for Java 7) somehow going to change that picture a lot? >>> If not, why? >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> Gilles >>> >>> [1] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:20 PM, Silviu Burcea < >>>> silviuburcea...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I think Rebel Labs or Plumbr have some metrics about JDK usage. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Hank Grabowski < >>>>> h...@applieddefense.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > Java 8 has only been out for less than a year. There is still a >>>>> sizable >>>>> > percentage of groups that have not converted up to Java 8 for myriad >>>>> > reasons. While I was surprised that we are requiring backwards >>>>> > compatibility with the ten year old Java 5 I think jumping all the >>>>> way >>>>> to >>>>> > requiring Java 8 may be a bit too much of a stretch. I would vote >>>>> for >>>>> a >>>>> > minimum required version of Java 7 with the ability to run in Java 8. >>>>> I >>>>> > wish I could find metrics to quantify the penetration of each of the >>>>> JDKs, >>>>> > but my gut says Java 7 would a reasonable cutoff. >>>>> > >>>>> > On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 8:31 PM, Gilles < >>>>> gil...@harfang.homelinux.org> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > > Raising this issue once again. >>>>> > >>> Are we going to upgrade the requirement for the next major >>>>> release? >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>> [ ] Java 5 >>>>> > >>> [ ] Java 6 >>>>> > >>> [ ] Java 7 >>>>> > >>> [ ] Java 8 >>>>> > >>> [ ] Java 9 >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > > Counts up to now: >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Java 7 -> 2 >>>>> > > Java 7 or 8 -> 2 >>>>> > > Java 8 -> 2 >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Any more opionions? >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Gilles >>>>> >>>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org > >
