Whoops, forgot my citation: [1] http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Braden Shepherdson <bra...@chromium.org>wrote: > "Less Magic" (bin/create, Plugman) and "More Magic" (CLI).[1] > > Mike Billau's suggestions look decent to me. How about "classic" instead > of "legacy"? Removes the "it sucks and will die someday" connotation, since > that's not true. > > Braden > > > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Mike Billau <mike.bil...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Lets make the name as confusing as possible, to live up to our history >> (callback, phonegap, cordova.) ;) >> >> Personally I think that the names should try to describe the difference >> between the workflows instead of trying to prescribe some type of usage, >> since there are unknown and developing use cases. >> >> To me the main difference between the workflows is that with the CLI, >> things get merged for you automatically, so I'm in favor of something like >> "CLI/Merges Workflow" and "Non-CLI/Legacy Workflow", and in the very first >> sentence of "Non-CLI/Legacy" we say "It's called "Legacy" because it was >> the pre-3.0 worfklow, not because it is no longer supported." >> >> Michal, we created an item to track the doc changes: >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CB-5122 I think the bulk of the >> workflow discussion can fit into the "Development Paths" section in the >> main Overview Guide. I'll get started but will continue to monitor this >> thread. >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Michal Mocny <mmo...@chromium.org> >> wrote: >> >> > (Okay, this thread at high risk of bikeshedding, just going to mention >> that >> > ;) But I do think it would be great to settle once and for all. >> > >> > I like the distinction Steven/Brian are making: Project flow vs Platform >> > flow. I'm not sure that those names are immediately 100% clear (I'll >> > ponder over it) but I like the focus points. >> > >> > I think Ian nails the description: "CLI encourages the "Your cordova >> web >> > view *IS* your application" mindset" >> > >> > I don't have a big preference one way or the other regarding attaching >> the >> > word "legacy" to the Platform Flow. I like that it conveys: "the flow >> you >> > are used to" and "there exists a new flow now that you should evaluate" >> but >> > I don't like that it may also convey "this flow is going to be >> deprecated" >> > which I don't think is true. >> > >> > Whatever we call it, I think its important to signal that Platform >> workflow >> > is for supporting "mucking with platform internals" not for "single >> > platform dev". Single platform dev can be done using CLI just as >> easily. >> > >> > Should we create a wiki/doc which explains the flow and lists the >> > pros/cons? >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Ian Clelland <iclell...@google.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Legacy, though, sounds like it's something that we're actively moving >> > away >> > > from; something that we support only grudgingly, and which we might >> > > deprecate at the drop of a hat. >> > > The platform-only workflow supports legitimate use-cases which CLI >> > probably >> > > will never cover -- things like embedding a cordova web view inside >> of a >> > > larger platform-native project. >> > > >> > > The major difference I see with CLI is that it encourages the "Your >> > cordova >> > > web view *IS* your application" mindset. (And if that's true, then why >> > > wouldn't you aim for cross-platform development?) The pre-CLI >> workflow is >> > > still the way to build all other sorts of applications. >> > > >> > > Ian >> > > >> > > >> > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:30 PM, purplecabbage < >> purplecabb...@gmail.com >> > > >wrote: >> > > >> > > > I like merge-flow and legacy-flow >> > > > >> > > > Sent from my iPhone >> > > > >> > > > > On Oct 18, 2013, at 6:59 PM, Carlos Santana <csantan...@gmail.com >> > >> > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > Cross Platform -> use Merge Flow >> > > > > >> > > > > Single Platform -> use Legacy Flow >> > > > > >> > > > > Using "Multi Platform or Cross Platform" is also fine >> > > > > >> > > > > Using "Flow or Mode" is also fine >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> On Friday, October 18, 2013, Brian LeRoux wrote: >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Ya, to me the difference is that one workflow embraces the native >> > > > platform >> > > > >> and tooling (plugman and bin/scripts) while the other focuses on >> > > > building a >> > > > >> web project (cli/merges/etc). >> > > > >> >> > > > >> As a dev, if I'm ONLY worried about one platform (like a Cordova >> > > > >> implementor or many of our community folk) then bin/scripts >> > suffices. >> > > As >> > > > >> soon as I'm concerned with more than one platform the CLI >> workflows >> > > kick >> > > > >> in. That was the use case anyhow. >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Steven Gill < >> > stevengil...@gmail.com> >> > > > >> wrote: >> > > > >> >> > > > >>> Brian suggested Project Development (CLI workflow) vs Platform >> > > > >> Development >> > > > >>> (bin/scripts) >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Steven Gill < >> > stevengil...@gmail.com >> > > > >> > > > >>> wrote: >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>>> We need more suggestions! >> > > > >>>> >> > > > >>>> Anis suggested picking to arbitrary names that don't reflect >> the >> > > > >>> workflows >> > > > >>>> but would be easy to refer to. >> > > > >>>> >> > > > >>>> >> > > > >>>> >> > > > >>>> >> > > > >>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Michal Mocny < >> > mmo...@chromium.org >> > > > >>>> wrote: >> > > > >>>> >> > > > >>>>> I use the IDE with the CLI and hope to make it better. >> > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> In my mind, the old way is for making platform modifications, >> and >> > > the >> > > > >>> new >> > > > >>>>> way threads platforms/ as a build artifact. >> > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> If you must control the platform code, you sacrifice easy >> > upgrades >> > > > and >> > > > >>>>> ease >> > > > >>>>> of multi-platform development, but gain control. >> > > > >>>>> If you want to use the CLI, you lose the ability to make >> > > > modifications >> > > > >>> to >> > > > >>>>> directly platform code without worrying about the >> implications. >> > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> -Michal >> > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Steven Gill < >> > > stevengil...@gmail.com >> > > > > >> > > > >>>>> wrote: >> > > > >>>>> >> > > > >>>>>> I like that better. >> > > > >>>>>> >> > > > >>>>>> I know that both methods use the command line, but the >> > cordova-cli >> > > > >> has >> > > > >>>>> cli >> > > > >>>>>> in its name! We call the tool the cordova-cli so it might be >> > more >> > > > >>>>> confusing >> > > > >>>>>> going away from that and calling it anything else. Not >> saying we >> > > > >>>>> shouldn't >> > > > >>>>>> be open to a name change though just because we called it X >> > since >> > > > >> its >> > > > >>>>>> inception (or am I saying that? :P). >> > > > >>>>>> >> > > > >>>>>> When we write the docs about the other workflow (bin/create, >> > > > >> plugman), >> > > > >>>>>> maybe making the IDE an integral part of it would make it >> make >> > > more >> > > > >>>>> sense >> > > > >>>>>> calling that workflow IDE. Just a thought. >> > > > >>>>>> >> > > > >>>>>> >> > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Jesse < >> > purplecabb...@gmail.com >> > > > >> > > > >>>>>> wrote: >> > > > >>>>>> >> > > > >>>>>>> IDE or cordova-cli ?? >> > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > >>>>>>> @purplecabbage >> > > > >>>>>>> risingj.com >> > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Steven Gill < >> > > > >>> stevengil...@gmail.com >> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote: >> > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > >>>>>>>> I think SinplePlatform vs MultiPlatform is misleading >> because >> > > > >> you >> > > > >>>>> can >> > > > >>>>>> use >> > > > >>>>>>>> the CLI to do single platform development. >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Jesse < >> > > > >> purplecabb...@gmail.com> >> > > > >>>>>> wrote: >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> SinglePlatform vs MultiPlatform makes the most sense to >> me. >> > > > >>>>>>>>> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> SinglePlatform = Focus on a single platform, and use >> plugman >> > > > >> and >> > > > >>>>> the >> > > > >>>>>>>>> platform scripts directly. Useful when you only have that >> > > > >>>>> particular >> > > > >>>>>>>> device >> > > > >>>>>>>>> to test on, or only have access to that device's >> marketplace. >> > > > >>>>> Also >> > > > >>>>>>>> useful >> > > > >>>>>>>>> for platform developers who are focused primarily on the >> > > > >> native >> > > > >>>>> code. >> > > > >>>>>>>>> ( aka DivideAndConquer ) >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > Carlos Santana >> > > > > <csantan...@gmail.com> >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >
