On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote: > I think we need to be explicit, not talk about legacy or magic. I'd like to > propose: > > Native Platform Dev -- Build Cordova apps on the metal. No helpers for > moving across platforms. > Web Project Dev -- Build web first projects that (mostly) treats native > projects as build artifacts. >
+1 !! Thats perfect. > > > > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Braden Shepherdson <bra...@chromium.org > >wrote: > > > Whoops, forgot my citation: > > > > [1] http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Braden Shepherdson < > bra...@chromium.org > > >wrote: > > > > > "Less Magic" (bin/create, Plugman) and "More Magic" (CLI).[1] > > > > > > Mike Billau's suggestions look decent to me. How about "classic" > instead > > > of "legacy"? Removes the "it sucks and will die someday" connotation, > > since > > > that's not true. > > > > > > Braden > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Mike Billau <mike.bil...@gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > >> Lets make the name as confusing as possible, to live up to our history > > >> (callback, phonegap, cordova.) ;) > > >> > > >> Personally I think that the names should try to describe the > difference > > >> between the workflows instead of trying to prescribe some type of > usage, > > >> since there are unknown and developing use cases. > > >> > > >> To me the main difference between the workflows is that with the CLI, > > >> things get merged for you automatically, so I'm in favor of something > > like > > >> "CLI/Merges Workflow" and "Non-CLI/Legacy Workflow", and in the very > > first > > >> sentence of "Non-CLI/Legacy" we say "It's called "Legacy" because it > was > > >> the pre-3.0 worfklow, not because it is no longer supported." > > >> > > >> Michal, we created an item to track the doc changes: > > >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CB-5122 I think the bulk of > the > > >> workflow discussion can fit into the "Development Paths" section in > the > > >> main Overview Guide. I'll get started but will continue to monitor > this > > >> thread. > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Michal Mocny <mmo...@chromium.org> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > (Okay, this thread at high risk of bikeshedding, just going to > mention > > >> that > > >> > ;) But I do think it would be great to settle once and for all. > > >> > > > >> > I like the distinction Steven/Brian are making: Project flow vs > > Platform > > >> > flow. I'm not sure that those names are immediately 100% clear > (I'll > > >> > ponder over it) but I like the focus points. > > >> > > > >> > I think Ian nails the description: "CLI encourages the "Your > cordova > > >> web > > >> > view *IS* your application" mindset" > > >> > > > >> > I don't have a big preference one way or the other regarding > attaching > > >> the > > >> > word "legacy" to the Platform Flow. I like that it conveys: "the > flow > > >> you > > >> > are used to" and "there exists a new flow now that you should > > evaluate" > > >> but > > >> > I don't like that it may also convey "this flow is going to be > > >> deprecated" > > >> > which I don't think is true. > > >> > > > >> > Whatever we call it, I think its important to signal that Platform > > >> workflow > > >> > is for supporting "mucking with platform internals" not for "single > > >> > platform dev". Single platform dev can be done using CLI just as > > >> easily. > > >> > > > >> > Should we create a wiki/doc which explains the flow and lists the > > >> > pros/cons? > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Ian Clelland <iclell...@google.com > > > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Legacy, though, sounds like it's something that we're actively > > moving > > >> > away > > >> > > from; something that we support only grudgingly, and which we > might > > >> > > deprecate at the drop of a hat. > > >> > > The platform-only workflow supports legitimate use-cases which CLI > > >> > probably > > >> > > will never cover -- things like embedding a cordova web view > inside > > >> of a > > >> > > larger platform-native project. > > >> > > > > >> > > The major difference I see with CLI is that it encourages the > "Your > > >> > cordova > > >> > > web view *IS* your application" mindset. (And if that's true, then > > why > > >> > > wouldn't you aim for cross-platform development?) The pre-CLI > > >> workflow is > > >> > > still the way to build all other sorts of applications. > > >> > > > > >> > > Ian > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:30 PM, purplecabbage < > > >> purplecabb...@gmail.com > > >> > > >wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > > I like merge-flow and legacy-flow > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Sent from my iPhone > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On Oct 18, 2013, at 6:59 PM, Carlos Santana < > > csantan...@gmail.com > > >> > > > >> > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Cross Platform -> use Merge Flow > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Single Platform -> use Legacy Flow > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Using "Multi Platform or Cross Platform" is also fine > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Using "Flow or Mode" is also fine > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> On Friday, October 18, 2013, Brian LeRoux wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> Ya, to me the difference is that one workflow embraces the > > native > > >> > > > platform > > >> > > > >> and tooling (plugman and bin/scripts) while the other focuses > > on > > >> > > > building a > > >> > > > >> web project (cli/merges/etc). > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> As a dev, if I'm ONLY worried about one platform (like a > > Cordova > > >> > > > >> implementor or many of our community folk) then bin/scripts > > >> > suffices. > > >> > > As > > >> > > > >> soon as I'm concerned with more than one platform the CLI > > >> workflows > > >> > > kick > > >> > > > >> in. That was the use case anyhow. > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Steven Gill < > > >> > stevengil...@gmail.com> > > >> > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >>> Brian suggested Project Development (CLI workflow) vs > Platform > > >> > > > >> Development > > >> > > > >>> (bin/scripts) > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Steven Gill < > > >> > stevengil...@gmail.com > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >>> wrote: > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > > >>>> We need more suggestions! > > >> > > > >>>> > > >> > > > >>>> Anis suggested picking to arbitrary names that don't > reflect > > >> the > > >> > > > >>> workflows > > >> > > > >>>> but would be easy to refer to. > > >> > > > >>>> > > >> > > > >>>> > > >> > > > >>>> > > >> > > > >>>> > > >> > > > >>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Michal Mocny < > > >> > mmo...@chromium.org > > >> > > > >>>> wrote: > > >> > > > >>>> > > >> > > > >>>>> I use the IDE with the CLI and hope to make it better. > > >> > > > >>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>> In my mind, the old way is for making platform > > modifications, > > >> and > > >> > > the > > >> > > > >>> new > > >> > > > >>>>> way threads platforms/ as a build artifact. > > >> > > > >>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>> If you must control the platform code, you sacrifice easy > > >> > upgrades > > >> > > > and > > >> > > > >>>>> ease > > >> > > > >>>>> of multi-platform development, but gain control. > > >> > > > >>>>> If you want to use the CLI, you lose the ability to make > > >> > > > modifications > > >> > > > >>> to > > >> > > > >>>>> directly platform code without worrying about the > > >> implications. > > >> > > > >>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>> -Michal > > >> > > > >>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Steven Gill < > > >> > > stevengil...@gmail.com > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> wrote: > > >> > > > >>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>> I like that better. > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>> I know that both methods use the command line, but the > > >> > cordova-cli > > >> > > > >> has > > >> > > > >>>>> cli > > >> > > > >>>>>> in its name! We call the tool the cordova-cli so it might > > be > > >> > more > > >> > > > >>>>> confusing > > >> > > > >>>>>> going away from that and calling it anything else. Not > > >> saying we > > >> > > > >>>>> shouldn't > > >> > > > >>>>>> be open to a name change though just because we called > it X > > >> > since > > >> > > > >> its > > >> > > > >>>>>> inception (or am I saying that? :P). > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>> When we write the docs about the other workflow > > (bin/create, > > >> > > > >> plugman), > > >> > > > >>>>>> maybe making the IDE an integral part of it would make it > > >> make > > >> > > more > > >> > > > >>>>> sense > > >> > > > >>>>>> calling that workflow IDE. Just a thought. > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Jesse < > > >> > purplecabb...@gmail.com > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >> > > > >>>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>>> IDE or cordova-cli ?? > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>>> @purplecabbage > > >> > > > >>>>>>> risingj.com > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Steven Gill < > > >> > > > >>> stevengil...@gmail.com > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote: > > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> I think SinplePlatform vs MultiPlatform is misleading > > >> because > > >> > > > >> you > > >> > > > >>>>> can > > >> > > > >>>>>> use > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> the CLI to do single platform development. > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Jesse < > > >> > > > >> purplecabb...@gmail.com> > > >> > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> SinglePlatform vs MultiPlatform makes the most sense > to > > >> me. > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> SinglePlatform = Focus on a single platform, and use > > >> plugman > > >> > > > >> and > > >> > > > >>>>> the > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> platform scripts directly. Useful when you only have > > that > > >> > > > >>>>> particular > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> device > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> to test on, or only have access to that device's > > >> marketplace. > > >> > > > >>>>> Also > > >> > > > >>>>>>>> useful > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> for platform developers who are focused primarily on > the > > >> > > > >> native > > >> > > > >>>>> code. > > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> ( aka DivideAndConquer ) > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > -- > > >> > > > > Carlos Santana > > >> > > > > <csantan...@gmail.com> > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
