Brian suggested Project Development (CLI workflow) vs Platform Development (bin/scripts)
On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Steven Gill <stevengil...@gmail.com> wrote: > We need more suggestions! > > Anis suggested picking to arbitrary names that don't reflect the workflows > but would be easy to refer to. > > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Michal Mocny <mmo...@chromium.org>wrote: > >> I use the IDE with the CLI and hope to make it better. >> >> In my mind, the old way is for making platform modifications, and the new >> way threads platforms/ as a build artifact. >> >> If you must control the platform code, you sacrifice easy upgrades and >> ease >> of multi-platform development, but gain control. >> If you want to use the CLI, you lose the ability to make modifications to >> directly platform code without worrying about the implications. >> >> -Michal >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Steven Gill <stevengil...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > I like that better. >> > >> > I know that both methods use the command line, but the cordova-cli has >> cli >> > in its name! We call the tool the cordova-cli so it might be more >> confusing >> > going away from that and calling it anything else. Not saying we >> shouldn't >> > be open to a name change though just because we called it X since its >> > inception (or am I saying that? :P). >> > >> > When we write the docs about the other workflow (bin/create, plugman), >> > maybe making the IDE an integral part of it would make it make more >> sense >> > calling that workflow IDE. Just a thought. >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Jesse <purplecabb...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > > IDE or cordova-cli ?? >> > > >> > > @purplecabbage >> > > risingj.com >> > > >> > > >> > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Steven Gill <stevengil...@gmail.com >> > > >wrote: >> > > >> > > > I think SinplePlatform vs MultiPlatform is misleading because you >> can >> > use >> > > > the CLI to do single platform development. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Jesse <purplecabb...@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > SinglePlatform vs MultiPlatform makes the most sense to me. >> > > > > >> > > > > SinglePlatform = Focus on a single platform, and use plugman and >> the >> > > > > platform scripts directly. Useful when you only have that >> particular >> > > > device >> > > > > to test on, or only have access to that device's marketplace. >> Also >> > > > useful >> > > > > for platform developers who are focused primarily on the native >> code. >> > > > > ( aka DivideAndConquer ) >> > > > > >> > > > > MultiPlatform = Build your app for a bunch of platforms at the >> same >> > > time. >> > > > > Great for when you know you are targeting multiple stores/devices. >> > > > > ( aka DucksInARow or MagicBullet ) >> > > > > >> > > > > I tend to lean towards the SinglePlatform, so maybe someone else >> > could >> > > > > enumerate more Multi benefits. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > @purplecabbage >> > > > > risingj.com >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Steven Gill < >> > stevengil...@gmail.com >> > > > > >wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > John: If you decided to take a stab a blogging about it, please >> > think >> > > > > about >> > > > > > blogging on the cordova site! We can all review it before >> > publishing >> > > it >> > > > > > too! >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Erik: that video was awesome! Let me know when Gorkem does a >> > release >> > > > and >> > > > > I >> > > > > > can post it on the cordova twitter feed. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Michal: Could just be CLI vs Plugman workflow >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Michal Mocny < >> > mmo...@chromium.org> >> > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I wonder if we should not work out better names for the two >> > > > workflows. >> > > > > > > Both are kinda command-line-based so saying "CLI" vs "old" is >> > > > > confusing. >> > > > > > > As is saying "the bin/ script flow" confusing. Not sure if >> > > "multi" >> > > > vs >> > > > > > > "single" platform flow is any better, since you can use both >> > flows >> > > > for >> > > > > > one >> > > > > > > or more platforms. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Anyway, if we have more obvious/catchy names, then we can be >> more >> > > > clear >> > > > > > in >> > > > > > > our communications which flow our answers are relevant to. >> i.e., >> > > > "use >> > > > > > > plugman to ... (only for ___ flow)". i.e., "Be carefully when >> > > > editing >> > > > > in >> > > > > > > IDE ... (only for ___ flow)". >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -Michal >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Anis KADRI < >> > anis.ka...@gmail.com> >> > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Erik that's great! Where can we download it? >> > > > > > > > On Oct 18, 2013 8:01 AM, "Andrew Grieve" < >> agri...@chromium.org >> > > >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Awesome video!! >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Erik Jan de Wit < >> > > > > ede...@redhat.com> >> > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On the topic of IDE support my collage Gorkem has made a >> > nice >> > > > > > wizard >> > > > > > > in >> > > > > > > > > > eclipse that mimics the CLI have a look at this video >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUyUUtmTYok >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On 18 Oct,2013, at 4:29 , Maxime LUCE < >> max...@somatic.fr> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Great Bryan >> > > > > > > > > > > Totally agree !!! >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Cordialement. >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > > > > > > > > Maxime LUCE - Somatic >> > > > > > > > > > > maxime.l...@somatic.fr >> > > > > > > > > > > 06 28 60 72 34 >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ >> > > > > > > > > > > De : Brian LeRoux<mailto:b...@brian.io> >> > > > > > > > > > > Envoyé : 18/10/2013 01:48 >> > > > > > > > > > > À : dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto: >> dev@cordova.apache.org >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Objet : Re: config.xml discussion, we need to talk >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I don't really appreciate comments that we don't talk >> to >> > > our >> > > > > > users, >> > > > > > > > or >> > > > > > > > > > build apps in anger. Neither of those assertions are >> true. >> > > The >> > > > > > > origins >> > > > > > > > of >> > > > > > > > > > these initiatives are based on both community feedback, >> and >> > > > > direct >> > > > > > > > > > experience. >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Keeping your focus on just pure platform side of a >> > project >> > > is >> > > > > > fine, >> > > > > > > > of >> > > > > > > > > > course, since the CLI delegates to the platform. This >> was >> > > also >> > > > a >> > > > > > > > > deliberate >> > > > > > > > > > learning from MANY attempts at an architecture that >> > satisfies >> > > > > both >> > > > > > > > > > approaches. It separates the concerns and respects the >> > > platform >> > > > > > will >> > > > > > > be >> > > > > > > > > > canonical for the common workflows supported. This is a >> > very >> > > > real >> > > > > > > > example >> > > > > > > > > > of Conway's Law btw. [1] >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Anyhow. Deep breath! Software has bugs, people will >> > report >> > > > > them, >> > > > > > > and >> > > > > > > > > > we'll continue to improve. This is a very large group >> with >> > a >> > > > very >> > > > > > > > diverse >> > > > > > > > > > community that spans regular old hackers to the humble >> web >> > > > > > designers. >> > > > > > > > We >> > > > > > > > > > need to respect that, and maybe be a little more >> > > compassionate >> > > > to >> > > > > > > each >> > > > > > > > > > other too. All software is fucked up, and at the end of >> the >> > > > day, >> > > > > it >> > > > > > > is >> > > > > > > > > our >> > > > > > > > > > perpetual job to make it a little less fucked up. >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_law >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [Inline image 1] >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Tommy Williams < >> > > > > > > to...@devgeeks.org >> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:to...@devgeeks.org>> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > Late to the party due to timezone fun, but I just >> want to >> > > > chime >> > > > > > in >> > > > > > > in >> > > > > > > > > > > support of the CLI. >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > As a dev working on an actual nontrivial "real world" >> > app, >> > > I >> > > > > > would >> > > > > > > > like >> > > > > > > > > > to >> > > > > > > > > > > let it be known that we (SpiderOak) have been heavy >> > > drinkers >> > > > of >> > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > CLI >> > > > > > > > > > > Kool-Aid since its infancy. >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > We have even managed to get to the point where >> > > > ./platforms/**/* >> > > > > > is >> > > > > > > > > just a >> > > > > > > > > > > build artefact (mostly by using hooks and tying the >> whole >> > > > thing >> > > > > > > > > together >> > > > > > > > > > > with Grunt). >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > We have a fast and fairly complex app (both many core >> > > plugins >> > > > > as >> > > > > > > well >> > > > > > > > > > and a >> > > > > > > > > > > few custom/third party ones), that even includes the >> > > ability >> > > > to >> > > > > > > white >> > > > > > > > > > label >> > > > > > > > > > > it with relative ease. >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I feel pretty strongly in favour of the CLI and >> strongly >> > > > > advocate >> > > > > > > its >> > > > > > > > > use >> > > > > > > > > > > when asked in the #phonegap IRC channel. >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Just my opinion, but thought it was important to add >> to >> > the >> > > > > > > > discussion. >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > - tommy / devgeeks >> > > > > > > > > > > On 18 Oct 2013 04:44, "Anis KADRI" < >> anis.ka...@gmail.com >> > > > > <mailto: >> > > > > > > > > > anis.ka...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Sweet. So I think we all agree (expect Joe perhaps?) >> > that >> > > > both >> > > > > > > > > > >> approaches should be supported :-) >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Carlos Santana < >> > > > > > > > > csantan...@gmail.com >> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:csantan...@gmail.com>> >> > > > > > > > > > >> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >>> I meant in addition of ".cordova/lib" also allow >> also >> > to >> > > do >> > > > > > > > something >> > > > > > > > > > >> like >> > > > > > > > > > >>> "cordova platform add ios >> > > > > > > --path="./cordova_components/cordova-ios" >> > > > > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Carlos Santana < >> > > > > > > > > csantan...@gmail.com >> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:csantan...@gmail.com> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> ++1 "to install from a given directory instead of >> > > > > > > .cordova/libs." >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Viras < >> > > > > > > > > vi...@users.sourceforge.net >> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:vi...@users.sourceforge.net> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> This might be true - it took me quite some time to >> > > figure >> > > > > out >> > > > > > > how >> > > > > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > > >> CLI >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> actually works - despite also having to fix one or >> > two >> > > > bugs >> > > > > > for >> > > > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > > WPX >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> implementation of the CLI code (as well as the >> > Windows >> > > 8 >> > > > > CLI >> > > > > > > > code). >> > > > > > > > > > But >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> still I would hate to see the CLI go, since I >> think >> > > once >> > > > > you >> > > > > > > are >> > > > > > > > > used >> > > > > > > > > > >> to >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> it, it saves you quite a lot of time (I still have >> > > those >> > > > > old >> > > > > > > > > > documents >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> which guide me through the setup of the IDE >> projects >> > > for >> > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > > different >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> platforms - which is now mostly obsolete). >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> So I guess supporting both methods is the way to >> > go... >> > > :) >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Best, >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Wolfgang >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Am 2013-10-17 16:13, schrieb Michal Mocny: >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Thanks so much for chiming in, I'm very happy to >> see >> > > that >> > > > > > > you've >> > > > > > > > > > >> figured >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> out how to leverage the benefits and avoid the >> > > drawbacks >> > > > > of >> > > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > new >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> workflow, and that it has led to increased >> > > productivity >> > > > > for >> > > > > > > you. >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> I do think that perhaps it is still too difficult >> > for >> > > > > every >> > > > > > > > > > developer >> > > > > > > > > > >> to >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> learn what you already have. >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> -Michal >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:13 AM, Viras < >> > > > > > > > > > vi...@users.sourceforge.net<mailto: >> > > vi...@users.sourceforge.net >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> my view on this discussion: >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I've used the CLI to release the latest version >> of >> > > GOFG >> > > > > > > Sports >> > > > > > > > > > >> Computer >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> for Windows Phone. The support for the "merges" >> > > > directory >> > > > > > is >> > > > > > > a >> > > > > > > > > > >> fantastic >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> feature which allows me to focus on the >> javascript >> > > code >> > > > > > using >> > > > > > > > > e.g. >> > > > > > > > > > >> the >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> NetBeans IDE - I can finally handle all my >> platform >> > > > > > specific >> > > > > > > > code >> > > > > > > > > > >> from >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> JavaScript in one consistent directory >> structure - >> > > > which >> > > > > is >> > > > > > > > what >> > > > > > > > > > >> Cordova >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> should be about. >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> In addition the CLI forces you to write clean >> code >> > > (not >> > > > > > > > implying >> > > > > > > > > > that >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> the >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> other method forces to write messy code). If you >> > need >> > > > > > > something >> > > > > > > > > > >> native >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> write a clean plugin for it (which also makes >> the >> > > code >> > > > > > > > reusable) >> > > > > > > > > - >> > > > > > > > > > no >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> need >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> to mess around in the native projects code - >> this >> > > also >> > > > > > makes >> > > > > > > > > > >> upgrading >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> cordova much easier. >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Once I've done the Windows Phone version I've >> > simply >> > > > > added >> > > > > > > > > Android >> > > > > > > > > > >> as a >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> platform, build it and I was done - no need for >> > > > fiddling >> > > > > > > around >> > > > > > > > > > with >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> SDK / >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> IDE setup etc (besides actually installing it). >> So >> > > CLI >> > > > is >> > > > > > my >> > > > > > > > > > favorite >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> way >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> to develop now - and it is far more powerful >> than >> > the >> > > > old >> > > > > > > > > approach >> > > > > > > > > > >> (in >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> my >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> opinion) - since it saves you from fiddling >> around >> > > with >> > > > > > > project >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> settings, >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> etc. when you do a multi-platform release. >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Oh yes - and GOFG SC uses two custom plugins, 5 >> > > > official >> > > > > > > > plugins >> > > > > > > > > > and >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> cordova 3.0 - so it is a bit beyond the "Hello >> > World" >> > > > > > > > > > application.... >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> And I do not agree that it isn't possible to >> work >> > > with >> > > > > the >> > > > > > > > native >> > > > > > > > > > >> IDEs >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> with their own projects - this is simply wrong >> > since >> > > > you >> > > > > > can >> > > > > > > > > always >> > > > > > > > > > >> go >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> to >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> the "platforms" directory and open the >> > > > platform-projects >> > > > > > > using >> > > > > > > > > > their >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> native >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> IDE from there (I've done this myself for e.g. >> > plugin >> > > > > > > > > development). >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Still I agree that both versions should be >> > supported >> > > - >> > > > > but >> > > > > > > > don't >> > > > > > > > > > make >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> the >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> assumption that the CLI is for "n00bs" only! >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Best, >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Wolfgang >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Am 2013-10-16 23:11, schrieb Joe Bowser: >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Michal Mocny < >> > > > > > > > > mmo...@chromium.org >> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:mmo...@chromium.org>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Anis: Totally agrees, but its important to >> > highlight >> > > > > that >> > > > > > > both >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> directions >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> for that arguments hold. We've done our best >> to >> > > > > support >> > > > > > > bin/ >> > > > > > > > > > >> scripts >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> post >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> 3.0, yet blanket statements like "CLI should >> not >> > be >> > > > > used >> > > > > > > with >> > > > > > > > > > >> IDE", or >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> "CLI >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> sucks unless you just doing something trivial" >> > are >> > > > > being >> > > > > > > > thrown >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> around, >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> which are harmful in my opinion, and I don't >> > think >> > > > its >> > > > > > fair >> > > > > > > > > that >> > > > > > > > > > >> some >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> of >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> us >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> are promoting that message to users. >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> I don't think we're communicating with our >> users >> > at >> > > > > all, >> > > > > > > so I >> > > > > > > > > > >> don't >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> see how this could be communicated. When users >> > > > > > communicate >> > > > > > > > > their >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> frustrations, it's usually something like this >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> ( >> > > > > > http://www.infil00p.org/****config-xml-changes-for-ios-**< >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> http://www.infil00p.org/**config-xml-changes-for-ios-** >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> and-android/#comment-10731<htt**p:// >> > > > > > > > www.infil00p.org/config-**< >> > > > > > > > > > http://www.infil00p.org/config-**> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> xml-changes-for-ios-and-**android/#comment-10731< >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://www.infil00p.org/config-xml-changes-for-ios-and-android/#comment-10731 >> > > > > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> ) >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> and this >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> ( >> > > > > > > > >> http://www.infil00p.org/****introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-**** >> > > > > > > > > < >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > http://www.infil00p.org/**introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-**> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> android/#comment-10694<http://** >> > > > > > > > www.infil00p.org/introducing-** >> > > > > > > > > < >> > > > > > > > > > http://www.infil00p.org/introducing-**> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> cordova-3-0-0-for-android/#**comment-10694< >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://www.infil00p.org/introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-android/#comment-10694 >> > > > > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> ). >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> CLI works well for me, and while its not >> perfect, >> > I >> > > > > strive >> > > > > > > to >> > > > > > > > > > learn >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> its >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> limitations and make it better, not condemn >> it. >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> I avoid it because it's not developed for me, >> or >> > > > > > developers >> > > > > > > > like >> > > > > > > > > > me >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> who like to see a big pile of output when >> things >> > > fail. >> > > > > I >> > > > > > > > > avoided >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> having any part in its development because I >> > thought >> > > > it >> > > > > > was >> > > > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > > >> wrong >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> way to do things. I assumed that the majority >> of >> > > > users >> > > > > > > > actually >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> wanted this and that I should do my best to >> work >> > > > around >> > > > > > > this, >> > > > > > > > > but >> > > > > > > > > > >> with >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> the backlash that we're getting, such as the >> blog >> > > > posts >> > > > > > and >> > > > > > > > some >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> comments on the Google Groups, it seems that >> this >> > > is a >> > > > > > > feature >> > > > > > > > > > very >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> few people actually wanted. >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> As far as the CordovaWebView use case, I >> actually >> > > have >> > > > > > never >> > > > > > > > > tried >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> that. >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Has anyone bothered to make sure it works well >> > > > > post-3.0, >> > > > > > or >> > > > > > > > > does >> > > > > > > > > > >> Joe >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> have >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> a point that we missed addressing this? >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> We have JUnit unit tests in the Android >> repository >> > > to >> > > > > make >> > > > > > > > sure >> > > > > > > > > > that >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> this still works. However, I would like to see >> > this >> > > > > test >> > > > > > > case >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> revisited since it may be more appropriate to >> have >> > > > > > > > > CordovaActivity >> > > > > > > > > > >> be >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> inherited instead of CordovaInterface, or for >> both >> > > to >> > > > be >> > > > > > > > > > supported. >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> This is so that we can make more hybrid >> > applications >> > > > and >> > > > > > > deal >> > > > > > > > > with >> > > > > > > > > > >> the >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> fact that we're so brutally non-complaint with >> > > Android >> > > > > UI >> > > > > > > > > > guidelines >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> instead of just ignoring it. I'll probably >> bring >> > > this >> > > > > up >> > > > > > > and >> > > > > > > > > > >> present >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> more source code when it's ready to explain >> why we >> > > > need >> > > > > > this >> > > > > > > > > > feature >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> in the next couple of weeks, and why it's >> > important >> > > to >> > > > > > > respect >> > > > > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> platform, even when the platform doesn't >> respect >> > the >> > > > > web. >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> -- >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> GOFG - Get On Fat Guy >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> http://www.gofg.at/ - powered by Cordova >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> -- >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> GOFG - Get On Fat Guy >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> http://www.gofg.at/ - powered by Cordova >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> -- >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> Carlos Santana >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> <csantan...@gmail.com<mailto:csantan...@gmail.com >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> -- >> > > > > > > > > > >>> Carlos Santana >> > > > > > > > > > >>> <csantan...@gmail.com<mailto:csantan...@gmail.com>> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >
