Re: [dba-dev] Embedded Database and User accounts and Schema's

[Andrew Jensen]

>> The "self-contained database" feature is >> targeted at unexperienced users, OK, now here is where I have a concern, self-contained databases have a whole list, imo, of  benefits  for developers targeting small businesses and in-house developers at small businesses (SB). Most of these have to do with the effort and support needed to get the customer site up and running. How to setup production and testing envrionments for the user site. How to deliver updates of the database application,etc. I know that the database engines in the dedicated servers will always stomp the engines in the embedded realm, but so what. A database engine is only one part of an application, and embedded engines are good enough for a lot of purposes. If I as a developer do my job correctly then from the users stand point it dosen't matter if they are 'unexperienced or not', they will never actually be digging around at the database object level. They will be thinking in the business object level. Now if they, users, are going to start creating databases applications for themselves. Then they will by definition, and by temperment quickly become NOT unexperienced users. I hate to be a heretic but there is a reason MS Access has done so well in the market place and it is not simply because of marketing or big bully tactics. It is because a light, self-contained database manager with integrated forms management, a decent report writer and passable coding environment and support for a dozen or so users just fits in a whole lot of user situations. Over the years I have had the pleasure, if that is the right word (and it wasn't always at the time), of porting MS Access or Jet based applications to larger more 'robust' RDBM engines and traditional, "big boy", development environments 6 times. In all these cases this was not a sign of failure on the part of the MS Access developers, it was a sign of success. In each case the business usefullness of the application had proven itself, over time, to the point that the number of users had grown beyond what the Jet engine could reasonably be expectied to handle. Anyway, I know that the road of development for 2.0 is already taken, but 2.01 is still just a twinkle in the eye, right. So,as a now self employeed developer, no longer with the budgets of the corporate commercial software world at my disposal and tageting the SB environment, under 50 users, I am hoping OOo can give me a tool just close to as good as MS Access has been. And do so in the embedded database format. I know how to use the REAL database mangers, I did for that for the other 19 years of my commercial software career. In other, and final, words. I like a whole lot of what I see so far, including the HSQL engine and hope that OOoBase will use all of its features to the fullest. Don;t dumb it down, you won't help the users really, but you will make life harder for the developers. Oh and Please, Please events at the database file level and a simple auto-run form :-) Andrew Jensen Frank Schönheit - Sun Microsystems Germany wrote: Hi Andrew, A few questions regarding User accounts and the embedded HSQL database engine? I suppose I can boil it all down to - Will they be supported or not? Users - maybe. At the moment, they aren't - as you rightly stated -, but they might make sense. Schemas - probably not. The "self-contained database" feature is targeted at unexperienced users, and those would most probably be confused when we throw terms like "schemas" at them (well, my dad definately would). So, if we ever go to support schemas for the embedded HSQLDB database, then we would need to be very careful to not alienate large parts of our target user base. Ciao Frank