Sorry for coming into this conversation late, but I have a lot of experience with writing the bylaws for Apache projects (Hadoop & ORC). As a neutral third party (not working for Databricks or a cloud provider) who has a lot of Apache experience, I'd like to offer my service as a moderator for the discussion. I don't think it is appropriate for a small group to come back with a finished product for a final vote, especially during the summer when lots of people are travelling, this process should be much more gradual and inclusive.
.. Owen On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 7:21 AM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Thanks for all the comments and feedback on the document, I am working > with a few commenters on some additional changes and wording, and then will > carry out the vote. > > Best, > Jack Ye > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 11:02 AM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> To provide an update here, I have consolidated most of the comments in >> the initial version, with the following changes: >> >> (1) condensed the section of roles and responsibilities, with pointers to >> different pages in ASF and existing Iceberg project pages. >> >> (2) clarified voting details, regrading things like partial votes, >> difference of voting on mailing lists vs voting on GitHub PRs >> >> (3) clarified the section regarding lazy consensus. There is a definition >> difference between the ASF definition (no +1 vote needed) vs the ORC >> definition (1 +1 vote). I renamed the ORC version as "minimum consensus" >> instead. >> >> (4) updated "Modify Code" vote type to minimum consensus. This is a bit >> different from ASF definition for code modification, but I think we are >> coming to an agreement that the ASF definition is outdated. Minimum >> consensus seems to make the most sense given the way we operate Iceberg so >> far, which is basically at least 1 committer other than the author needs to >> approve a PR before merging. >> >> (5) updated all decisions regarding committers and PMC members and >> guideline updates to majority approval, following the ASF guideline on >> voting for procedural issues. >> >> Let me know if there is anything else we see major disagreements with, >> and I will organize a vote after 24 hours. >> >> Best, >> Jack Ye >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 11:04 AM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> +1 for adding to the site. >>> >>> I am putting it as a doc for now since Google doc is easier to comment >>> (I think?). My plan is to: >>> >>> (1) publish it as a PR after a vote has passed. We can do one more >>> sanity check in the PR, but the information will be exactly as it is >>> presented in the Google doc, maybe adding some additional links to more >>> easily jump among the sections or to other pages in the site, fix some >>> grammar issues that were overlooked. >>> >>> (2) keep a changelog within the document itself. Because we have moved >>> the site multiple times in the past, I am not really confident that we >>> could just track history with Git commit history, especially with such an >>> important document. I would like to add a changelog section in the end, >>> documenting what change has been approved when, with links to devlist >>> discussions and votes. >>> >>> For how we tackle the other topics, my plan is to pass the initial >>> version first, and then we just go through all the identified topics one by >>> one. I have a list of all topics in the original feedback collection >>> devlist thread. >>> >>> Let me know what you think about these plans! >>> >>> Best, >>> Jack Ye >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 9:04 AM Ryan Blue <b...@databricks.com.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> +1 for adding this to the site once we agree on the changes. >>>> >>>> One thing that has been raised several times but hasn't yet been >>>> addressed is how we want to tackle this. Many of us have asked to review >>>> the additional bylaws individually and discuss the purpose and merits of >>>> each one. It's great to have an overall doc (much like our integrated PRs >>>> to give context) but I think we should start having separate discussions >>>> about the rationale for each bylaw to make progress. >>>> >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 8:57 AM Micah Kornfield <emkornfi...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Jack, >>>>> I think it would make sense to convert this to a PR, so it can be >>>>> version tracked in the future (and that way it avoids another review if >>>>> the >>>>> intent is to transitition github)? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Micah >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 9:07 AM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the feedback in the bylaws document discussion thread! As >>>>>> suggested, I have removed all the topics that require further debates, >>>>>> and >>>>>> created this new doc to serve as the initial version that we can review >>>>>> and >>>>>> later vote. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S3igb5NqSlYE3dq_qRsP3X2gwhe54fx-Sxq5hqyOe6I/edit >>>>>> >>>>>> I will organize new devlist threads to discuss other topics to amend >>>>>> the guidelines step by step, once this initial version is in. >>>>>> >>>>>> A few additional changes that I have already incorporated: >>>>>> 1. modified the name from "bylaws" to "community guidelines", >>>>>> following the latest ASF guideline >>>>>> 2. renamed "lazy majority" and "lazy 2/3 majority" to "majority >>>>>> approval" and "2/3 majority approval" >>>>>> 3. changed "Propose Removing Committer", "Propose Removing PMC >>>>>> Member" to consensus approval, and added "Propose PMC Chair Change" >>>>>> decision following the default Apache project community guidelines. >>>>>> 4. changed "Release Product" voting period to 5 days instead of 3 >>>>>> days excluding weekends. >>>>>> 5. clarified the copyright of code in Apache Iceberg codebases >>>>>> >>>>>> The most important thing is probably to agree upon the 2/3 majority >>>>>> approval for modifying the project guidelines, so we can have a >>>>>> consistent >>>>>> voting method going forward. This initial introduction of the bylaws will >>>>>> be voted using consensus approval. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please take a look and comment about any additional changes needed, >>>>>> and I will host a vote in 3 days. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Jack Ye >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ryan Blue >>>> Databricks >>>> >>>
