Hi Owen Sorry I missed your message before replying. I agree, I think we should take more time on the proposal.
Regards JB On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 10:14 PM Owen O'Malley <owen.omal...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Sorry for coming into this conversation late, but I have a lot of experience > with writing the bylaws for Apache projects (Hadoop & ORC). As a neutral > third party (not working for Databricks or a cloud provider) who has a lot of > Apache experience, I'd like to offer my service as a moderator for the > discussion. I don't think it is appropriate for a small group to come back > with a finished product for a final vote, especially during the summer when > lots of people are travelling, this process should be much more gradual and > inclusive. > > .. Owen > > On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 7:21 AM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Thanks for all the comments and feedback on the document, I am working with >> a few commenters on some additional changes and wording, and then will carry >> out the vote. >> >> Best, >> Jack Ye >> >> On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 11:02 AM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> To provide an update here, I have consolidated most of the comments in the >>> initial version, with the following changes: >>> >>> (1) condensed the section of roles and responsibilities, with pointers to >>> different pages in ASF and existing Iceberg project pages. >>> >>> (2) clarified voting details, regrading things like partial votes, >>> difference of voting on mailing lists vs voting on GitHub PRs >>> >>> (3) clarified the section regarding lazy consensus. There is a definition >>> difference between the ASF definition (no +1 vote needed) vs the ORC >>> definition (1 +1 vote). I renamed the ORC version as "minimum consensus" >>> instead. >>> >>> (4) updated "Modify Code" vote type to minimum consensus. This is a bit >>> different from ASF definition for code modification, but I think we are >>> coming to an agreement that the ASF definition is outdated. Minimum >>> consensus seems to make the most sense given the way we operate Iceberg so >>> far, which is basically at least 1 committer other than the author needs to >>> approve a PR before merging. >>> >>> (5) updated all decisions regarding committers and PMC members and >>> guideline updates to majority approval, following the ASF guideline on >>> voting for procedural issues. >>> >>> Let me know if there is anything else we see major disagreements with, and >>> I will organize a vote after 24 hours. >>> >>> Best, >>> Jack Ye >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 11:04 AM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> +1 for adding to the site. >>>> >>>> I am putting it as a doc for now since Google doc is easier to comment (I >>>> think?). My plan is to: >>>> >>>> (1) publish it as a PR after a vote has passed. We can do one more sanity >>>> check in the PR, but the information will be exactly as it is presented in >>>> the Google doc, maybe adding some additional links to more easily jump >>>> among the sections or to other pages in the site, fix some grammar issues >>>> that were overlooked. >>>> >>>> (2) keep a changelog within the document itself. Because we have moved the >>>> site multiple times in the past, I am not really confident that we could >>>> just track history with Git commit history, especially with such an >>>> important document. I would like to add a changelog section in the end, >>>> documenting what change has been approved when, with links to devlist >>>> discussions and votes. >>>> >>>> For how we tackle the other topics, my plan is to pass the initial version >>>> first, and then we just go through all the identified topics one by one. I >>>> have a list of all topics in the original feedback collection devlist >>>> thread. >>>> >>>> Let me know what you think about these plans! >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Jack Ye >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 9:04 AM Ryan Blue <b...@databricks.com.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> +1 for adding this to the site once we agree on the changes. >>>>> >>>>> One thing that has been raised several times but hasn't yet been >>>>> addressed is how we want to tackle this. Many of us have asked to review >>>>> the additional bylaws individually and discuss the purpose and merits of >>>>> each one. It's great to have an overall doc (much like our integrated PRs >>>>> to give context) but I think we should start having separate discussions >>>>> about the rationale for each bylaw to make progress. >>>>> >>>>> Ryan >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 8:57 AM Micah Kornfield <emkornfi...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Jack, >>>>>> I think it would make sense to convert this to a PR, so it can be >>>>>> version tracked in the future (and that way it avoids another review if >>>>>> the intent is to transitition github)? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Micah >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 9:07 AM Jack Ye <yezhao...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback in the bylaws document discussion thread! As >>>>>>> suggested, I have removed all the topics that require further debates, >>>>>>> and created this new doc to serve as the initial version that we can >>>>>>> review and later vote. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S3igb5NqSlYE3dq_qRsP3X2gwhe54fx-Sxq5hqyOe6I/edit >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I will organize new devlist threads to discuss other topics to amend >>>>>>> the guidelines step by step, once this initial version is in. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A few additional changes that I have already incorporated: >>>>>>> 1. modified the name from "bylaws" to "community guidelines", following >>>>>>> the latest ASF guideline >>>>>>> 2. renamed "lazy majority" and "lazy 2/3 majority" to "majority >>>>>>> approval" and "2/3 majority approval" >>>>>>> 3. changed "Propose Removing Committer", "Propose Removing PMC Member" >>>>>>> to consensus approval, and added "Propose PMC Chair Change" decision >>>>>>> following the default Apache project community guidelines. >>>>>>> 4. changed "Release Product" voting period to 5 days instead of 3 days >>>>>>> excluding weekends. >>>>>>> 5. clarified the copyright of code in Apache Iceberg codebases >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The most important thing is probably to agree upon the 2/3 majority >>>>>>> approval for modifying the project guidelines, so we can have a >>>>>>> consistent voting method going forward. This initial introduction of >>>>>>> the bylaws will be voted using consensus approval. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please take a look and comment about any additional changes needed, and >>>>>>> I will host a vote in 3 days. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Jack Ye >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ryan Blue >>>>> Databricks
