Ivan, which vendors place files into current work dir, can you please give an example?
> Generally IGNITE_HOME should be defined This is an inconvenience for the users, bad usability. As a user, why would I want to define a system-wide property just to use some library? > As for .NET. Should not we define IGNITE_HOME for it? No, for the reasons stated above. I'd like everyone to pay more attention to Maven/NuGet distribution scenario. Forget about zip archive for a while. As a user, I add a dependency to Ignite package and call Ignition.start(). That's all, it should work right away, no env vars, no additional configuration. And current work dir should not matter, because different tools, IDEs and workflows dictate different work directories. > user.home can be not writable as well In this case users won't even be able to use Maven or NuGet, let's not consider those rare scenarios. To summarize: home directory is the way to go as a default location. On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 12:14 PM Ivan Pavlukhin <vololo...@gmail.com> wrote: > As for .NET. Should not we define IGNITE_HOME for it? > > чт, 3 окт. 2019 г. в 12:13, Ivan Pavlukhin <vololo...@gmail.com>: > > > > Folks, > > > > I am with Ilya here. I remind that we are talking not about general > > case for Ignite usage. Generally IGNITE_HOME should be defined. > > Otherwise we fallback to a default, and user.dir usually points to a > > directory where java launcher command was called (work dir). > > > > user.home seems to cause more surprises to me: > > * user.home can be undefined for JVM; > > * user.home can be not writable as well (e.g. some special service user). > > > > And as far as know other vendors usually place files required for an > > application in current work dir. > > > > чт, 3 окт. 2019 г. в 01:45, Denis Magda <dma...@apache.org>: > > > > > > I was always expecting this to be a user *home* directory that can be > > > resolved in any operating system and will work for any language > supported > > > by Ignite. So, I'm with Pavel here. > > > > > > Alex G, what's your thinking? Sounds like we need to change this one > more > > > time. > > > > > > - > > > Denis > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 12:17 PM Pavel Tupitsyn <ptupit...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > > > > > Everyone above agreed to `~/ignite/work`, then somehow we jumped to > > > > `user.dir/ignite/work`. > > > > To me `user.dir` looked like synonym for ~, but turns out this is > not true. > > > > I think others may be confused in the same way. > > > > > > > > Denis Magda, Alexey Goncharuk, and others - please confirm that you > > > > understand that `user.dir` means current directory, not user home > > > > directory. > > > > > > > > In my opinion, this is very broken. Current work dir can be literally > > > > anything, e.g.: > > > > `cd / && ~/my-ignite-app/run.sh` will cause an attempt to create > ignite dir > > > > in system root, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:46 PM Ilya Kasnacheev < > ilya.kasnach...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > > > > I think this is a sensible default and it was certainly not chosen > by > > > > > mistake. It was intentional expectation that your project is > started from > > > > > project root and data is located under it. > > > > > > > > > > If this breaks .Net, I am deeply sorry. > > > > > However, I think we should change .net to provide non-default > workdir > > > > > location when none is specified. > > > > > > > > > > Can you please clarify scenarios that are broken now? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > ср, 2 окт. 2019 г., 20:28 Pavel Tupitsyn <ptupit...@apache.org>: > > > > > > > > > > > Igniters, > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks like we made a mistake while implementing IGNITE-12057: > > > > > > `user.dir` is NOT user home directory, it is where JVM has been > started > > > > > > from, which is rather arbitrary. > > > > > > (Among other things this breaks Ignite.NET usage from tools like > > > > LINQPad, > > > > > > because `user.dir` ends up pointing to Program Files, which is > not > > > > > > writable without elevation) > > > > > > > > > > > > We should use `user.home` system property instead, see > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/essential/environment/sysprop.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts, objections? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 1:57 PM Ilya Kasnacheev < > > > > > ilya.kasnach...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello again! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that I have updated release notes for IGNITE-12057 > as > > > > well > > > > > as > > > > > > > added them for my ticket. Release Engineers, please make sure > you > > > > > include > > > > > > > the latest one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Ilya Kasnacheev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > пн, 2 сент. 2019 г. в 13:33, Ilya Kasnacheev < > > > > > ilya.kasnach...@gmail.com > > > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have pushed an amended fix to both master and ignite-2.7.6. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Ilya Kasnacheev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > пт, 30 авг. 2019 г. в 21:48, Denis Magda <dma...@apache.org > >: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Ilya, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> I forgot to push "Send for review" button. You can see my > minor > > > > > > comment > > > > > > > >> now. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> - > > > > > > > >> Denis > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 5:47 AM Ilya Kasnacheev < > > > > > > > >> ilya.kasnach...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Hello! > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Waiting for a minor comment from Denis, as soon as I > see/fix it > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > >> going > > > > > > > >> > to commit. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Regards, > > > > > > > >> > Ilya. > > > > > > > >> > -- > > > > > > > >> > Ilya Kasnacheev > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > пт, 30 авг. 2019 г. в 11:30, Alexey Goncharuk < > > > > > > > >> alexey.goncha...@gmail.com > > > > > > > >> > >: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > Hello Ilya, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > Just curious, when are you planning to commit your > changes to > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> 2.7.6 > > > > > > > >> > > branch? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > ср, 28 авг. 2019 г. в 04:57, Denis Magda < > dma...@apache.org>: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > Ok, seems like we came to a consensus. Let’s ensure > that the > > > > > > path > > > > > > > >> for > > > > > > > >> > our > > > > > > > >> > > > work dir is user.dir/ignite/work and restart the vote. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > Denis > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > On Tuesday, August 27, 2019, Ilya Kasnacheev < > > > > > > > >> > ilya.kasnach...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > >> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > I have took the liberty to implement the change to > > > > existing > > > > > > code > > > > > > > >> base > > > > > > > >> > > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > remove concern about work/ directory: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > https://github.com/apache/ignite/pull/6816/files > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Some advocacy for this patch: > > > > > > > >> > > > > - Minimal change. > > > > > > > >> > > > > - Storing in user.dir/ignite/work (current > directory, e.g. > > > > > > > project > > > > > > > >> > > root) > > > > > > > >> > > > > which is consistent with behavior of unzipped binary > > > > > release. > > > > > > > >> > > > > - We can re-use user.dir/ignite for other uses in > the > > > > > future, > > > > > > > >> such as > > > > > > > >> > > > > storing logs there. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > I have to admit that my previous reaction to the > change > > > > was > > > > > > too > > > > > > > >> > strong. > > > > > > > >> > > > It > > > > > > > >> > > > > turned out the default was user.dir/work (project > root) > > > > and > > > > > > not > > > > > > > >> > > > > user.home/work (home dir with imminent Work > collision). > > > > > > > >> > > > > Nevertheless, I think that after this change it > would be > > > > > good > > > > > > > >> enough > > > > > > > >> > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > last for a few years. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > >> > > > > -- > > > > > > > >> > > > > Ilya Kasnacheev > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > вт, 27 авг. 2019 г. в 18:28, Alexey Goncharuk < > > > > > > > >> > > > alexey.goncha...@gmail.com > > > > > > > >> > > > > >: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > In the current state of the project, we cannot > directly > > > > > > > compare > > > > > > > >> > > Ignite > > > > > > > >> > > > > > setup process to the one of postgresql or another > > > > > database. > > > > > > In > > > > > > > >> many > > > > > > > >> > > > > Ignite > > > > > > > >> > > > > > examples, an embedded node (even with > persistence) is > > > > > > started > > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > > >> > it > > > > > > > >> > > is > > > > > > > >> > > > > > supposed to run without any additional FS rights > grants > > > > or > > > > > > > init > > > > > > > >> > > steps. > > > > > > > >> > > > > This > > > > > > > >> > > > > > may be changed in 3.0, but not in a maintenance > release. > > > > > If > > > > > > we > > > > > > > >> are > > > > > > > >> > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > change the directory to /var/lib, I would rather > fail > > > > > Ignite > > > > > > > >> node > > > > > > > >> > > start > > > > > > > >> > > > > > asking a user to explicitly provide work > directory path. > > > > > Let > > > > > > > >> alone > > > > > > > >> > > > > /var/lib > > > > > > > >> > > > > > is not portable and I would not add an OS-switch > to the > > > > > code > > > > > > > >> for no > > > > > > > >> > > > > reason. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I vote for storing the work in ~/ignite/work - > agree > > > > with > > > > > > Ilya > > > > > > > >> that > > > > > > > >> > > > > writing > > > > > > > >> > > > > > large amounts of data in a hidden folder is a bad > idea. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > вт, 27 авг. 2019 г. в 15:17, Dmitriy Pavlov < > > > > > > > dpav...@apache.org > > > > > > > >> >: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hi Igniters, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I agree that user home maybe not the best place > from > > > > > Linux > > > > > > > >> > > > perspective > > > > > > > >> > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > philosophy, but "user.home"/ignite/work is > more or > > > > > less > > > > > > > >> > portable. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > For the Linux environment, we can add a > suggestion > > > > about > > > > > > > >> where to > > > > > > > >> > > > place > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > persisted data. For very first testing of Apache > > > > Ignite > > > > > > user > > > > > > > >> home > > > > > > > >> > > > still > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > looks good for me. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dmitriy Pavlov > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > вт, 27 авг. 2019 г. в 11:56, Pavel Pereslegin < > > > > > > > >> xxt...@gmail.com > > > > > > > >> > >: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Or instead of a WARNING, we can add a > suggestion > > > > with > > > > > a > > > > > > > >> > > > > recommendation > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > for the production environment. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > вт, 27 авг. 2019 г. в 11:41, Petr Ivanov < > > > > > > > >> mr.wei...@gmail.com > > > > > > > >> > >: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > /opt is either does not exist on fresh > system, or > > > > > has > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > same > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > restriction: no user access without admin > > > > > intervention. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > /usr/local, /var/lib, etc. — all this is > > > > implemented > > > > > > in > > > > > > > >> our > > > > > > > >> > > DEB / > > > > > > > >> > > > > RPM > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > packages already. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > For ZIP installation %HOME% seems to be the > best > > > > > > > approach > > > > > > > >> for > > > > > > > >> > > > > > "2-click" > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > launch. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Later user can update preferences and set > working > > > > > dir > > > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > > whatever > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > directory he would like. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Also — we can put WARNING message to log > noting > > > > that > > > > > > > >> WORK_DIR > > > > > > > >> > > is > > > > > > > >> > > > > set > > > > > > > >> > > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > default. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On 27 Aug 2019, at 10:16, Zhenya > Stanilovsky > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > <arzamas...@mail.ru.INVALID> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > And what about /opt/ignite ? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > copy-paste: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > " > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The basic difference is that /usr/local > is for > > > > > > > >> software > > > > > > > >> > not > > > > > > > >> > > > > > managed > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > by the system packager, but still following > the > > > > > standard > > > > > > > >> unix > > > > > > > >> > > > > > deployment > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > rules. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > That's why you have /usr/local/bin , > > > > > > /usr/local/sbin > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > /usr/local/include etc... > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > /opt on the other hand is for software > that > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > >> follow > > > > > > > >> > > > this > > > > > > > >> > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > is deployed in a monolithic fashion. This > usually > > > > > > includes > > > > > > > >> > > > commercial > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > and/or cross-platform software that is > packaged in > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > "Windows" > > > > > > > >> > > > > > style. " > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Понедельник, 26 августа 2019, 22:49 > +03:00 от > > > > > Denis > > > > > > > >> Magda > > > > > > > >> > < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > dma...@apache.org>: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Igniters, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> I can't disagree with Nikolay that, as a > > > > > database, > > > > > > > >> Ignite > > > > > > > >> > > > needs > > > > > > > >> > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > persist > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> changes to a folder different from > "user.home" > > > > > one. > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > >> > with > > > > > > > >> > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> rate of project growth and adoption, I > would > > > > > > > encourage > > > > > > > >> us > > > > > > > >> > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > eliminate any > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> possible obstacles a user might come > across > > > > > during > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > getting > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > started > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> phase with Ignite. Unfortunately, folders > > > > > different > > > > > > > >> from > > > > > > > >> > > > > > "user.home" > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > imply > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> a significant restriction - the user > needs to > > > > > allow > > > > > > > >> access > > > > > > > >> > > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > folders > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> /lib, /etc; which can make every getting > > > > started > > > > > > demo > > > > > > > >> or > > > > > > > >> > app > > > > > > > >> > > > > fail. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Thus, today, I'm casting my vote for > > > > > > > >> > "user.home"/ignite/work > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > directory. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Please don't forget about Windows and > MacOS. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> - > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Denis > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 7:09 AM Pavel > Tupitsyn > > > > < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ptupit...@apache.org > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>> +1 for ~/.ignite/work > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>> As Petr mentioned above, this > translates well > > > > to > > > > > > > >> Windows > > > > > > > >> > > and > > > > > > > >> > > > > > MacOS > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > too, we > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>> can use "home directory" term in > documentation > > > > > and > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > >> > works > > > > > > > >> > > > for > > > > > > > >> > > > > > any > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > OS. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 4:03 PM Nikolay > > > > Izhikov > > > > > < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > nizhi...@apache.org > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> AFAIK server admin expects software > will > > > > store > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > >> data > > > > > > > >> > > in > > > > > > > >> > > > > > /var/ > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> directory, not in /home directory. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> In Docker age, packages are becoming > > > > extinct. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> I don't agree with that, but seems, > it's not > > > > a > > > > > > > >> subject > > > > > > > >> > of > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > discussion. :) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> we don't even have very good packages > today > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> Why do you think we don't have good > packages? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> What is wrong with the current one? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I also think we should not copy what > other > > > > > DBMS > > > > > > do > > > > > > > >> > since > > > > > > > >> > > > > their > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> ease-of-use > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> is usually lacking > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> We should define 'easy-of-use' here. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> My experience with the modern > dbms(postgres > > > > and > > > > > > > >> mysql) > > > > > > > >> > is > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > different. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> В Пн, 26/08/2019 в 15:47 +0300, Ilya > > > > Kasnacheev > > > > > > > >> пишет: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Hello! > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I think it is 2., because if a node > is run > > > > > from > > > > > > > >> Ignite > > > > > > > >> > > > binary > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> distribution > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> it has its root as a ignite work > directory. > > > > I > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > >> it > > > > > > > >> > it > > > > > > > >> > > > > > another > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> argument > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> for keeping data under current dir - > Ignite > > > > > > binary > > > > > > > >> > > > > distribution > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> does it, why should embedded scenario > be > > > > > > > different? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> In Docker age, packages are becoming > > > > extinct. > > > > > > > Nobody > > > > > > > >> > > wants > > > > > > > >> > > > > them > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>> anymore, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> anyway. I don't see why we should aim > for > > > > > those > > > > > > > >> since > > > > > > > >> > we > > > > > > > >> > > > > don't > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > even > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>> have > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> very good packages today, and nobody > wants > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > contribute > > > > > > > >> > > > > > towards > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> improvement. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I also think we should not copy what > other > > > > > DBMS > > > > > > do > > > > > > > >> > since > > > > > > > >> > > > > their > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> ease-of-use > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> is usually lacking (this is from > someone who > > > > > had > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > > support > > > > > > > >> > > > > > mysql > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> pgsql > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> deployments). > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Regards, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Zhenya Stanilovsky > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > -- > > > > > > > >> > > > - > > > > > > > >> > > > Denis > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > Ivan Pavlukhin > > > > -- > Best regards, > Ivan Pavlukhin >
