Pavel, > Ivan, which vendors place files into current work dir, can you please give an > example?
Cockroachdb stores files relative to current work dir (yes, "cd" sensitive). As I understood aforementioned SQLite do the same [1]. > In this case users won't even be able to use Maven or NuGet, let's not > consider those rare scenarios. Cannot tell about NuGet. Maven is typically used during development, usually there is no Maven in production deployments. Folks, I believe we should definitely wait a reply from Ilya, as the fix was not done blindly. [1] https://www.sqlite.org/c3ref/data_directory.html чт, 3 окт. 2019 г. в 14:19, Nikolay Izhikov <nizhi...@apache.org>: > > Alexey. > > > Ignite is widely used in embedded scenarios; the ability to process data > > in-process locally is very powerful and I see no reason why we should > > remove it > > I don't propose to remove something. > I wrote about "same distribution". > > Seems, we should have different defaults and even distributions for different > usage scenarios. > > > As an example, > > both SQLite, and rocksdb are distributed as a library, so I see no issues > > in Ignite server side being a library. > > As far as I know, both rocksdb and SQLite is local only libraries and don't > have any distrubted features. > > > >"current directory" as persistence directory is not consistent. > > I agree with you. > How it happens, that after wide discussion we implemented, reviewed and > merged wrong defaults? > > As I know, we have explicit release only to change this default. > > This release is broken, isn't it? > > В Чт, 03/10/2019 в 14:03 +0300, Alexey Goncharuk пишет: > > Nikolay, > > > > Ignite is widely used in embedded scenarios; the ability to process data > > in-process locally is very powerful and I see no reason why we should > > remove it. I absolutely agree with Pavel T. on the subject. As an example, > > both SQLite, and rocksdb are distributed as a library, so I see no issues > > in Ignite server side being a library. > > > > As long as Ignite is available as a maven library, we should provide a > > consistent node behavior; "current directory" as persistence directory is > > not consistent. > > > > чт, 3 окт. 2019 г. в 13:52, Nikolay Izhikov <nizhi...@apache.org>: > > > > > Pavel. > > > > > > > As a user, why would I want to define a system-wide property just to use > > > > some library? > > > > > > Why do you think Ignite is a library? > > > May be the root of usability issues in using same distribution for a > > > library and server side dbms? > > > > > > > > > В Чт, 03/10/2019 в 13:40 +0300, Pavel Tupitsyn пишет: > > > > Ivan, which vendors place files into current work dir, can you please > > > > > > give > > > > an example? > > > > > > > > > Generally IGNITE_HOME should be defined > > > > > > > > This is an inconvenience for the users, bad usability. > > > > As a user, why would I want to define a system-wide property just to use > > > > some library? > > > > > > > > > As for .NET. Should not we define IGNITE_HOME for it? > > > > > > > > No, for the reasons stated above. > > > > > > > > I'd like everyone to pay more attention to Maven/NuGet distribution > > > > scenario. Forget about zip archive for a while. > > > > As a user, I add a dependency to Ignite package and call > > > > > > Ignition.start(). > > > > That's all, it should work right away, no env vars, no additional > > > > configuration. > > > > And current work dir should not matter, because different tools, IDEs > > > > and > > > > workflows dictate different work directories. > > > > > > > > > user.home can be not writable as well > > > > > > > > In this case users won't even be able to use Maven or NuGet, let's not > > > > consider those rare scenarios. > > > > > > > > > > > > To summarize: home directory is the way to go as a default location. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 12:14 PM Ivan Pavlukhin <vololo...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > As for .NET. Should not we define IGNITE_HOME for it? > > > > > > > > > > чт, 3 окт. 2019 г. в 12:13, Ivan Pavlukhin <vololo...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > > > > > > > I am with Ilya here. I remind that we are talking not about general > > > > > > case for Ignite usage. Generally IGNITE_HOME should be defined. > > > > > > Otherwise we fallback to a default, and user.dir usually points to a > > > > > > directory where java launcher command was called (work dir). > > > > > > > > > > > > user.home seems to cause more surprises to me: > > > > > > * user.home can be undefined for JVM; > > > > > > * user.home can be not writable as well (e.g. some special service > > > > > > user). > > > > > > > > > > > > And as far as know other vendors usually place files required for an > > > > > > application in current work dir. > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 3 окт. 2019 г. в 01:45, Denis Magda <dma...@apache.org>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was always expecting this to be a user *home* directory that can > > > > > > be > > > > > > > resolved in any operating system and will work for any language > > > > > > > > > > supported > > > > > > > by Ignite. So, I'm with Pavel here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex G, what's your thinking? Sounds like we need to change this > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > Denis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 12:17 PM Pavel Tupitsyn < > > > > > > ptupit...@apache.org> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone above agreed to `~/ignite/work`, then somehow we jumped > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > `user.dir/ignite/work`. > > > > > > > > To me `user.dir` looked like synonym for ~, but turns out this > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > not true. > > > > > > > > I think others may be confused in the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis Magda, Alexey Goncharuk, and others - please confirm that > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > understand that `user.dir` means current directory, not user > > > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > directory. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my opinion, this is very broken. Current work dir can be > > > > > > literally > > > > > > > > anything, e.g.: > > > > > > > > `cd / && ~/my-ignite-app/run.sh` will cause an attempt to create > > > > > > > > > > ignite dir > > > > > > > > in system root, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:46 PM Ilya Kasnacheev < > > > > > > > > > > ilya.kasnach...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think this is a sensible default and it was certainly not > > > > > > chosen > > > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > mistake. It was intentional expectation that your project is > > > > > > > > > > started from > > > > > > > > > project root and data is located under it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If this breaks .Net, I am deeply sorry. > > > > > > > > > However, I think we should change .net to provide non-default > > > > > > > > > > workdir > > > > > > > > > location when none is specified. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please clarify scenarios that are broken now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ср, 2 окт. 2019 г., 20:28 Pavel Tupitsyn <ptupit...@apache.org > > > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Igniters, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks like we made a mistake while implementing > > > > > > > > > > IGNITE-12057: > > > > > > > > > > `user.dir` is NOT user home directory, it is where JVM has > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > started > > > > > > > > > > from, which is rather arbitrary. > > > > > > > > > > (Among other things this breaks Ignite.NET usage from tools > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LINQPad, > > > > > > > > > > because `user.dir` ends up pointing to Program Files, which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > writable without elevation) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We should use `user.home` system property instead, see > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/essential/environment/sysprop.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts, objections? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 1:57 PM Ilya Kasnacheev < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ilya.kasnach...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello again! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that I have updated release notes for > > > > > > IGNITE-12057 > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > well > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > added them for my ticket. Release Engineers, please make > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > include > > > > > > > > > > > the latest one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > Ilya Kasnacheev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > пн, 2 сент. 2019 г. в 13:33, Ilya Kasnacheev < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ilya.kasnach...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have pushed an amended fix to both master and > > > > > > ignite-2.7.6. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Ilya Kasnacheev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > пт, 30 авг. 2019 г. в 21:48, Denis Magda < > > > > > > dma...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ilya, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I forgot to push "Send for review" button. You can see > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > minor > > > > > > > > > > comment > > > > > > > > > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 5:47 AM Ilya Kasnacheev < > > > > > > > > > > > > > ilya.kasnach...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waiting for a minor comment from Denis, as soon as I > > > > > > > > > > see/fix it > > > > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > > > > > going > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to commit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ilya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ilya Kasnacheev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > пт, 30 авг. 2019 г. в 11:30, Alexey Goncharuk < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alexey.goncha...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Ilya, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just curious, when are you planning to commit your > > > > > > > > > > changes to > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.7.6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > branch? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ср, 28 авг. 2019 г. в 04:57, Denis Magda < > > > > > > > > > > dma...@apache.org>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, seems like we came to a consensus. Let’s > > > > > > ensure > > > > > > > > > > that the > > > > > > > > > > path > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > work dir is user.dir/ignite/work and restart the > > > > > > vote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, August 27, 2019, Ilya Kasnacheev < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ilya.kasnach...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have took the liberty to implement the > > > > > > change to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > existing > > > > > > > > > > code > > > > > > > > > > > > > base > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remove concern about work/ directory: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/ignite/pull/6816/files > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some advocacy for this patch: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minimal change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Storing in user.dir/ignite/work (current > > > > > > > > > > directory, e.g. > > > > > > > > > > > project > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > root) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which is consistent with behavior of unzipped > > > > > > binary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - We can re-use user.dir/ignite for other uses > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > future, > > > > > > > > > > > > > such as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > storing logs there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have to admit that my previous reaction to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > change > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > turned out the default was user.dir/work > > > > > > (project > > > > > > > > > > root) > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > user.home/work (home dir with imminent Work > > > > > > > > > > collision). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, I think that after this change > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > would be > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > last for a few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ilya Kasnacheev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > вт, 27 авг. 2019 г. в 18:28, Alexey Goncharuk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alexey.goncha...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the current state of the project, we > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > > > > directly > > > > > > > > > > > compare > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignite > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup process to the one of postgresql or > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > database. > > > > > > > > > > In > > > > > > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignite > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > examples, an embedded node (even with > > > > > > > > > > persistence) is > > > > > > > > > > started > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supposed to run without any additional FS > > > > > > rights > > > > > > > > > > grants > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > init > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > steps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may be changed in 3.0, but not in a > > > > > > maintenance > > > > > > > > > > release. > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > change the directory to /var/lib, I would > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > > > fail > > > > > > > > > Ignite > > > > > > > > > > > > > node > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > asking a user to explicitly provide work > > > > > > > > > > directory path. > > > > > > > > > Let > > > > > > > > > > > > > alone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /var/lib > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is not portable and I would not add an > > > > > > OS-switch > > > > > > > > > > to the > > > > > > > > > code > > > > > > > > > > > > > for no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I vote for storing the work in ~/ignite/work > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > agree > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > Ilya > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > writing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > large amounts of data in a hidden folder is > > > > > > a bad > > > > > > > > > > idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > вт, 27 авг. 2019 г. в 15:17, Dmitriy Pavlov > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dpav...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Igniters, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that user home maybe not the best > > > > > > place > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > Linux > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perspective > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > philosophy, but "user.home"/ignite/work > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > more or > > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > > > > portable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the Linux environment, we can add a > > > > > > > > > > suggestion > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > where to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > place > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > persisted data. For very first testing of > > > > > > Apache > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignite > > > > > > > > > > user > > > > > > > > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looks good for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dmitriy Pavlov > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > вт, 27 авг. 2019 г. в 11:56, Pavel > > > > > > Pereslegin < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xxt...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or instead of a WARNING, we can add a > > > > > > > > > > suggestion > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recommendation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for the production environment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > вт, 27 авг. 2019 г. в 11:41, Petr Ivanov > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mr.wei...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /opt is either does not exist on fresh > > > > > > > > > > system, or > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > restriction: no user access without > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > admin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > intervention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /usr/local, /var/lib, etc. — all this > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > implemented > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DEB / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RPM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > packages already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For ZIP installation %HOME% seems to > > > > > > be the > > > > > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > > > approach > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "2-click" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > launch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Later user can update preferences and > > > > > > set > > > > > > > > > > working > > > > > > > > > dir > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whatever > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directory he would like. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also — we can put WARNING message to > > > > > > log > > > > > > > > > > noting > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > WORK_DIR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > set > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > default. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 27 Aug 2019, at 10:16, Zhenya > > > > > > > > > > Stanilovsky > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <arzamas...@mail.ru.INVALID> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what about /opt/ignite ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > copy-paste: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The basic difference is that > > > > > > /usr/local > > > > > > > > > > is for > > > > > > > > > > > > > software > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > managed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by the system packager, but still > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > > > > > > unix > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deployment > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rules. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why you have /usr/local/bin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /usr/local/sbin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /usr/local/include etc... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /opt on the other hand is for > > > > > > software > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > > > > > > > follow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is deployed in a monolithic fashion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > usually > > > > > > > > > > includes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > commercial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and/or cross-platform software that is > > > > > > > > > > packaged in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Windows" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > style. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Понедельник, 26 августа 2019, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 22:49 > > > > > > > > > > +03:00 от > > > > > > > > > Denis > > > > > > > > > > > > > Magda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dma...@apache.org>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Igniters, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't disagree with Nikolay > > > > > > that, as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > database, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignite > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > needs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > persist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > changes to a folder different from > > > > > > > > > > "user.home" > > > > > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rate of project growth and > > > > > > adoption, I > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > encourage > > > > > > > > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eliminate any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > possible obstacles a user might > > > > > > come > > > > > > > > > > across > > > > > > > > > during > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > getting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > started > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > phase with Ignite. Unfortunately, > > > > > > folders > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "user.home" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imply > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a significant restriction - the > > > > > > user > > > > > > > > > > needs to > > > > > > > > > allow > > > > > > > > > > > > > access > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > folders > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /lib, /etc; which can make every > > > > > > getting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > started > > > > > > > > > > demo > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > app > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, today, I'm casting my vote > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "user.home"/ignite/work > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directory. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please don't forget about Windows > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > MacOS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 7:09 AM > > > > > > Pavel > > > > > > > > > > Tupitsyn > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ptupit...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 for ~/.ignite/work > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Petr mentioned above, this > > > > > > > > > > translates well > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > Windows > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MacOS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > too, we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can use "home directory" term in > > > > > > > > > > documentation > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > works > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 4:03 PM > > > > > > Nikolay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Izhikov > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nizhi...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AFAIK server admin expects > > > > > > software > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > store > > > > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > > > > > data > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /var/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directory, not in /home > > > > > > directory. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Docker age, packages are > > > > > > becoming > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > extinct. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't agree with that, but > > > > > > seems, > > > > > > > > > > it's not > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > subject > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussion. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we don't even have very good > > > > > > packages > > > > > > > > > > today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think we don't have > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > packages? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is wrong with the current > > > > > > one? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also think we should not > > > > > > copy what > > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > DBMS > > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ease-of-use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is usually lacking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We should define 'easy-of-use' > > > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My experience with the modern > > > > > > > > > > dbms(postgres > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > mysql) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > В Пн, 26/08/2019 в 15:47 > > > > > > +0300, Ilya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kasnacheev > > > > > > > > > > > > > пишет: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it is 2., because if > > > > > > a node > > > > > > > > > > is run > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignite > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > binary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > distribution > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it has its root as a ignite > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > > > directory. > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > argument > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for keeping data under > > > > > > current dir - > > > > > > > > > > Ignite > > > > > > > > > > binary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > distribution > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does it, why should embedded > > > > > > scenario > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > different? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Docker age, packages are > > > > > > becoming > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > extinct. > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wants > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anymore, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyway. I don't see why we > > > > > > should aim > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very good packages today, > > > > > > and nobody > > > > > > > > > > wants > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > contribute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > towards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > improvement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also think we should not > > > > > > copy what > > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > DBMS > > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ease-of-use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is usually lacking (this is > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > someone who > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > support > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mysql > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pgsql > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deployments). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zhenya Stanilovsky > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Ivan Pavlukhin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Ivan Pavlukhin > > > > > -- Best regards, Ivan Pavlukhin
