Hello everyone, after reading the thread, I feel like are straying far from the original problem - Missing examples for 10.0.0.
However, these examples are in fact, not missing, All of them are here https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-examples/tree/main What is missing is their adjustment to 10.0.0 release. So to resolve the situation, I propose to do is: 1. Branch this repository e.g. stable-10.0.0 or 10.0.x 2. Let SMEs update the examples on this branch so the example uses 10.0.0 release Doing this we solve the immediate issue of not having something we can reference to our customers. Customer will be able to do the following steps: 1. git clone [email protected]:apache/incubator-kie-kogito-examples.git 2. git checkout stable-10.0.0 3. cd the-best-example-in-the-world 4. Follow README instructions to work with it Let me know what you think about this, imho this solves the issue and retains the approach we established in kiegroup. Best regards, Dominik On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 at 13:39, Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti < [email protected]> wrote: > Related with the zulip topic, won't be the solution to make "main" the > default branch for example repo? > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 12:50 PM Gabriele Cardosi < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > before getting any further, I would kindly ask, as a general approach, to > > first of all clearly and properly contextualize the issue we are > eventually > > proposing to solve, so that we may all well understand it. > > With that in place, we can evaluate whether a problem really exists, its > > extent, etc. > > > > In light of that, Alex, sorry, but " hang in Zulip you can see > > that users are completely lost with lack of any example" can't be a > serious > > statement to justify anything, and is just your "feeling". > > > > I read a thread in which the actual issue lies in the "stable" branch > that > > no-one updates but external users are misled to think it is the preferred > > one to use: if this is the case you are referring to, well, the issue is > > completely different (funny enough, no-one noticed that the user clearly > > states that they was using the stable branch, which should have been the > > very first thing to ask). > > I also remember a mention of the compact-architecture example but, again > > funny, this is already inside kie-tools, IINW. > > > > So, sorry to be bothering or sounding rude, but first we have to stop > > making proposals or request adjustments on top of gut-feelings, > > extemporaneous complaints, or whatever, and begin with analyzing if a > > problem to solve actually exists, and what it is, in the first place. > > After that, there are all the remarks made in this thread, about > > 1) how to discuss *any* proposal > > 2) what are the immediate and long-term goals we have. > > > > To conclude and try to be extremely clear: > > 1 related to 10.x examples, the long I read this thread the more I think > > that moving them under kie-tools has absolutely nothing to do with the > > problems users may face; eventually, it would make things only harder for > > them > > 2 from a private discussion I had, it seems that all may resolve around > > making a branch to point the 10 release, more or less, and again > completely > > unrelated with moving them elsewhere (of course, someone with better > > knowledge then me may correct) > > 3 as mentioned before by someone else, I can't personally take the burden > > of doing something for which it is not even clear the reason for, and > > probably the same goes true for others; but that does not imply that an > > idea/proposal is "good" only because in the spur of the moment there is > not > > an alternative > > > > Best :) > > > > > > > > Il giorno ven 10 gen 2025 alle ore 11:56 Enrique Gonzalez Martinez < > > [email protected]> ha scritto: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Regarding this topic as some of the people mentioned before this is a > > > matter of proper pipeline. Moving the examples to kie tools should be > > > a temporary solution but we know that there is nothing more permanent > > > than a temporary solution as everybody will get back to deadlines, TO > > > DO list and so forth. > > > > > > In any case if we cannot find a proper solution in the pipeline, I am > > > not against moving those examples to kie-tools with some conditions. > > > > > > 1. they should offer the same level of independence as it is now. > > > Meaning that if I go to the folder of kie-tools/examples (or whatever > > > it is) and I do mvn clean install it should be able to build with the > > > 999-SNAPSHOT like other projects and take my local changes without any > > > further configuration. > > > 2. it should support the same level of CI per PR like we have now. Now > > > examples are one repo but the CI execution is split in 2 (quarkus and > > > spring boot) > > > 3. any other tool used by kie-tools like pnpn should be unnecessary to > > > build the examples. > > > 4. any version or snap version set by kie tools building tool can > > > override during building but cannot set on pom. > > > 5. any change in that structure without proper discussion should be > > > result in an inmediate rollback without any approval required. > > > > > > Doing this mantain the kogito-examples independence even if we have > > > them in kie-tools and for backender will have the same outcome and > > > daily work. If those criteria are not met, I am against moving > > > examples. > > > > > > Cheers :) > > > > > > > > > El jue, 9 ene 2025 a las 16:56, Alex Porcelli (<[email protected]>) > > > escribió: > > > > > > > > I’m looking for this new thread, but I don’t think it would > invalidate > > > this > > > > thread. > > > > > > > > The scope of this thread is clear, and if you hang in Zulip you can > see > > > > that users are completely lost with lack of any example…. I created > my > > > own > > > > example to help, but I don’t think this is the solution this > community. > > > > > > > > I’d argue that the options are clear and also we defined, there’s an > > > > actionable plan and even commitment to execute. > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 10:20 AM Paolo Bizzarri <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > > > > > I do think that this is relevant for the discussion on the kogito > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > It is a necessary decision that we as a community we need to take > > > before > > > > > making other modifications to the repo structure. > > > > > > > > > > Let's open a new thread so that first we can reach the consensus on > > > which > > > > > should be the general structure of the KIE project - in term of > > > > > repositories - and then we can move forward identifying the actions > > > > > required to move into that direction and who can do this. > > > > > > > > > > Without this consensus things will keep getting discussed again and > > > again, > > > > > which is something no one wants. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > P. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 2:36 PM Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, Tiago for steering back the thread to original > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please anyone feel free to open a new thread to discuss whatever > > you > > > > > > consider necessary. Just be thoughtful to write not only > opinions, > > > but > > > > > > detailed plans with actionable items. Ideally with some level of > > > > > commitment > > > > > > to an execution. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 8:15 AM Tiago Bento < > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Before I share my remarks about the "examples" topic in > > particular, > > > > > > > let me start by talking about a concept that I think is often > > > > > > > mistakenly used in this mailing list -- "users". Users are (the > > > way I > > > > > > > see it at least) people who consume our software via our > official > > > > > > > releases. They (mostly) DO NOT care about where or how the > source > > > code > > > > > > > is hosted, built, released, nor how "hard" or "inconvenient" it > > is > > > to > > > > > > > develop the artifacts they actually depend on. Apache KIE users > > are > > > > > > > not Apache KIE developers. For a long time now, I think we > might > > be > > > > > > > focusing our technical discussions too much on us (developers) > > and > > > too > > > > > > > little on our users, who are the reason why we do all this in > the > > > > > > > first place. In the end, we want our software to be used to > solve > > > > > > > problems in the real world, and to help people outside of this > > > little > > > > > > > inner circle of developers (us) to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex created a thread to discuss a real problem our users are > > > facing, > > > > > > > and we quickly turned it into a discussion on what's best for > us > > > > > > > developers. Alex also came up with a real solution to the > > problem, > > > and > > > > > > > we started debating the entire architecture of the codebase, > with > > > all > > > > > > > sorts of arguments mixed into the conversation. We won't ever > go > > > > > > > anywhere if we continue discussing things this way. We can't > halt > > > all > > > > > > > technical/architectural discussions because we don't have a > > > "global" > > > > > > > plan that will solve all our problems. So let's PLEASE take a > > step > > > > > > > back and talk about our focused subject on this thread: "How > can > > we > > > > > > > allow our users consume meaningful example applications in an > > easy > > > > > > > way, for each release we do?". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I compiled the two options that have been shared so far: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Move the example applications from `kogito-examples` to > > > > > > > `kie-tools`'s `examples/` folder and create a new release job > to > > > > > > > publish a ZIP containing each of the examples as a release > > > artifact. > > > > > > > 2. Integrate `kogito-examples` into our release process so that > > it > > > has > > > > > > > its versions properly updated and is tagged once a release is > > > > > > > approved, and keep everything else as is, without references to > > > > > > > artifacts coming from `kie-tools`. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I most like about option 1 is that there are no changes > > > needed in > > > > > > > "the CI" (other than removing kogito-examples from it, of > course, > > > like > > > > > > > we did for kogito-images recently). Moving our examples to > > > `kie-tools` > > > > > > > would also allow for them to correctly and safely depend on > tools > > > > > > > artifacts, like the graphical Editors, Container images, and > > > Quarkus > > > > > > > Dev UIs, which, as pointed out by Francisco, have become > central > > to > > > > > > > the development of Decisions, Workflows, and Processes, and > add a > > > > > > > great value for people exploring these examples applications. > > Users > > > > > > > would be able to consume these example applications in the same > > way > > > > > > > they consume other release artifacts, and we could even keep a > > > > > > > read-only repository where we publish these individual > > applications > > > > > > > for convenience (maybe ` > > github.com/apache/incubator-kie-examples` > <http://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-examples> > > <http://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-examples> > > > <http://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-examples> > > > > > <http://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-examples> > > > > > > <http://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-examples>? > > > > > > > <http://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-examples?>). > > > > > > > IMHO, trying to make a repository satisfy both developers and > > users > > > > > > > will always yield a sub-optimal setup. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This "CI" we're constantly referring to, to my best knowledge, > > is a > > > > > > > mix of PR checks (`build-chain` + GitHub Actions) and release > > > > > > > automations ("the Kogito framework" on Apache Jenkins) for the > > > > > > > `drools`, `optaplanner`, `kogito-runtimes`, `kogito-apps` (and > > > more or > > > > > > > less `kogito-examples`) repos. I personally do not know how it > > all > > > > > > > works, but AFAIK `build-chain` was created by Enrique Cano back > > in > > > Red > > > > > > > Hat days and has been referred to by our PR checks [1]; and > "the > > > > > > > Kogito framework" on Apache Jenkins for release automation has > > > always > > > > > > > imposed challenges to us in terms of maintainability. Rodrigo > > > Antunes, > > > > > > > Alex, and I suffered quite a bit with it during the push for > > > 10.0.0. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While I believe both `build-chain` and "the Kogito framework" > on > > > > > > > Apache Jenkins to have been created by talented contributors > with > > > > > > > their best intentions in mind, both have evolved to be places > > > where no > > > > > > > one wants to go; tools that no one really wants to > > > maintain/evolve. In > > > > > > > my view, both have become an increasing risk to the sustainable > > > growth > > > > > > > of the Apache KIE community, so suggesting we delegate the > > > solution to > > > > > > > a "new" problem to these systems (and therefore depending more > on > > > > > > > them) doesn't really resonate with me, so I wouldn't go with > > > option 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-pipelines/blob/main/.ci/actions/build-chain/action.yml#L36 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 6:16 AM Gabriele Cardosi > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I would like to quote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "So, first and foremost we should decide which is the ideal > > > situation > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > we want to move our repos - one repo, two repo, many repos. > > With > > > > > ideal > > > > > > > > situation I mean "what we think is the best architecture". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a similar thread where we have been asked to > approve a > > > given > > > > > > > > proposal without having defined the overall strategy for > > > code-base > > > > > > > > management. > > > > > > > > The lack of a clear architecture goal, IMO, affected a lot of > > our > > > > > > > > decisions, that at a given point became "unavoidable" while, > > > > > actually, > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > were not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, to further the previous remarks, before going on with > this > > > > > > > discussion, > > > > > > > > there are two topics to tackle once and for all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. multiple repo vs mono-repo (global concern) > > > > > > > > 2. What is exactly the scope of our examples ? (specific to > > this > > > > > > thread) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About the latter, we also had a longish thread last summer, > > about > > > > > > > > "standalone" or similar, that basically ended up on nothing > > > because, > > > > > if > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > scope of something is not commonly clear and agreed upon, > then > > > it is > > > > > > > > impossible to get to a commonly shared solution. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > > Gabriele > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Il giorno gio 9 gen 2025 alle ore 08:43 Jan Šťastný < > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > ha scritto: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to add some high-level details of "the CI > changes". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From CI standpoint, adding kie-tools build into build-chain > > > > > > > configuration > > > > > > > > > for drools/optaplanner/kogito-runtimes/kogito-apps is > > possible. > > > > > There > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > be adjustments needed for the examples to reference a > "local" > > > image > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > during the same CI build, but that should be fine. The > > > execution > > > > > > times > > > > > > > > > would be extended by the time needed to build kie-tools > > images > > > due > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > repository changes up the stream (drools,...), but that's > > > closing a > > > > > > > serious > > > > > > > > > gap we have in the builds, so I don't worry too much. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What implications this would have on kie-tools > > pr-check/nightly > > > > > > builds > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > don't know, it's a different CI solution from the rest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But as mentioned by others here - we need to clarify what > is > > > our > > > > > > > ultimate > > > > > > > > > goal, which hugely affects CI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned build-chain which is by many people > regarded > > > as > > > > > > > > > (un)necessary evil. I just want to highlight that when we > > keep > > > many > > > > > > > > > repositories, then a solution without build-chain would be > a > > > > > > > non-trivial > > > > > > > > > effort comparable to the initial CI configuration after the > > > > > > repository > > > > > > > > > transfer. Which I do not volunteer for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 at 07:20, Paolo Bizzarri < > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not think this is the correct approach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we have a window with a broken glass, we can decide to > > > use a > > > > > > > newspaper > > > > > > > > > > to close the hole because we do not have the money to > > > purchase a > > > > > > new > > > > > > > > > glass. > > > > > > > > > > But this does not mean that using a newspaper is a good > > > strategy > > > > > to > > > > > > > fix a > > > > > > > > > > window. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, first and foremost we should decide which is the > ideal > > > > > > situation > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > we want to move our repos - one repo, two repo, many > repos. > > > With > > > > > > > ideal > > > > > > > > > > situation I mean "what we think is the best > architecture". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then we decide which steps we want to take in which > > > direction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WRT resources - i.e. time of people for fixing this or > > that. > > > It > > > > > is > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > hard to commit to "something" when it is not clear what > is > > > this > > > > > > > > > > "something". In our case, it is hard for me to commit to > > > > > > > "investigate CI > > > > > > > > > > options" when it is pretty unclear which is the situation > > we > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > achieve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I remember, there have been multiple threads in > > the > > > > > past > > > > > > > months > > > > > > > > > > where it is pretty clear that there is no agreement on > the > > > > > general > > > > > > > > > > structure of repos and dependencies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's clarify first this, and then move forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paolo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 9:53 PM Alex Porcelli < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree to remove the link with tools if we'd remove > > the > > > > > tools > > > > > > > > > > > dependencies from the examples.... otherwise it creates > > the > > > > > > > cyclical > > > > > > > > > > > dependency - which was the reason Examples was excluded > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm also happy if anyone here volunteers to explore the > > > > > > adjustments > > > > > > > > > > > needed in the CI suggested by you... I'm also happy > with > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the end I expect that we get into a solution, > in a > > > way > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > another. I'd like to propose to use the general 72 > hours > > > (as > > > > > > > commonly > > > > > > > > > > > used in Apache) to see if we get any volunteers to take > > on > > > CI > > > > > > > work. If > > > > > > > > > > > we can't get it, I'd suggest narrowing the options to > > > either > > > > > > adjust > > > > > > > > > > > examples (remove dependencies to artifacts produced by > > > tools > > > > > > repo) > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > move the examples somewhere else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 3:41 PM Francisco Javier Tirado > > > Sarti > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would argue that examples depend more directly on > > > runtimes, > > > > > > > apps or > > > > > > > > > > > > drools than in tools or images, basically because a > > > > > regression > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > tools > > > > > > > > > > > > code will hardly make any example IT to fail, but a > > > > > regression > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > runtimes, > > > > > > > > > > > > apps or drools will certainly cause almost all > examples > > > to > > > > > > > > > malfunction. > > > > > > > > > > > In > > > > > > > > > > > > fact, in most cases, tool dependency is just an > > optional > > > > > add-on > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > example, it's not part of the core functionality of > the > > > > > > example. > > > > > > > A > > > > > > > > > > proof > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > that is that if the tool dependency is removed, most > > > examples > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > > > work (without the fancy graphical tool, but will > still > > > work). > > > > > > So, > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > point of view, it is kind of strange that examples > are > > > moved > > > > > > > > > precisely > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > the repo they have the weaker link to (I'm not > arguing > > to > > > > > > remove > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > dependency because I feel tools are a pivotal part of > > the > > > > > > > platform > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > makes a difference and we want to showcase that in > our > > > > > > > examples). We > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > have a couple of examples that, trying to illustrate > > k8s > > > > > usage > > > > > > > (which > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > also pivotal, but not strictly needed, because the > > > platform > > > > > > also > > > > > > > runs > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > baremetal), are really required to be executed after > > > > > everything > > > > > > > else > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > been compiled, tested and deployed. > > > > > > > > > > > > With that in mind, I think that moving stuff to the > > last > > > > > > > repository > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > chain (because I guess that's the reason Tools was > the > > > chosen > > > > > > > one) > > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > > > be a kind of last resort, we need to explore the CI > > issue > > > > > > first. > > > > > > > > > Maybe > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > is not that hard (for a person with enough knowledge > of > > > the > > > > > > > internals > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > the CI pipeline, I'm clearly not that person) to > > execute > > > > > > > examples at > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > end of the CI pipeline. And definitely branching > > examples > > > > > repo > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > release > > > > > > > > > > > > at the same time than the other repos should not be a > > > huge > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > > either > > > > > > > > > > > > and I think it can be done independently of the CI > > order > > > > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 8:17 PM Alex Porcelli < > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Francisco, I think some clarifications are needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By “properly maintained,” I’m referring to examples > > > that > > > > > are > > > > > > > fully > > > > > > > > > > > > > integrated into our CI pipeline and constantly > > updated > > > to > > > > > > > track the > > > > > > > > > > > > > project’s versions, including release versions. In > my > > > view, > > > > > > > > > ensuring > > > > > > > > > > > > > that examples work not just with 999-SNAPSHOT but > > also > > > > > > released > > > > > > > > > > > > > versions is critical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Snapshot Usage, while having examples > > > > > automatically > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > 999-SNAPSHOT is helpful for early testing, we need > to > > > be > > > > > > > cautious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache guidelines discourage the promotion of > > snapshot > > > > > > > artifacts > > > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > primary means of distribution. Hence, it’s > important > > to > > > > > offer > > > > > > > > > > examples > > > > > > > > > > > > > that align with actual release versions as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Current CI Limitations, although the examples repo > is > > > > > > nominally > > > > > > > > > > > > > integrated into CI for the runtimes and apps, the > > > setup is > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > functioning as intended. Many examples require > DevUI > > or > > > > > > > container > > > > > > > > > > > > > images built in the kie-tools repository, which > > aren’t > > > > > fully > > > > > > > > > captured > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the current pipeline. This makes it difficult to > > > trust > > > > > CI > > > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > > > > entirely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And finally, my last proposal includes relocating > the > > > > > > examples > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > kie-tools repo (under an /examples folder) so they > > can > > > be > > > > > > > > > developed, > > > > > > > > > > > > > built, and tested alongside the assets they depend > on > > > > > (DevUI, > > > > > > > > > > > > > container images, etc.). And part of this move, I > > > commit > > > > > > > myself to > > > > > > > > > > > > > adjust the release CI to produce a dedicated > > “examples > > > > > > > artifact”. > > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > > > > should resolve the dependency and version-sync > issues > > > while > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > > > > allowing us to release the examples separately. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope these clarifications help. Please let me > know > > > if you > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > > > questions or concerns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 4:55 AM Francisco Javier > > Tirado > > > > > Sarti > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We need to define "properly maintained" ;). > > > Currently, > > > > > > > examples > > > > > > > > > > repo > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > integrated into the CI pipeline for runtimes and > > > apps. > > > > > This > > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > > > > that if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > some change in runtimes or apps repos breaks an > > > example, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > PR > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > red > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and won't be merged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's another layer of "security" from a quality > > > > > > > perspective and > > > > > > > > > > > forces > > > > > > > > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to keep examples working. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are also a good way for community users to > > test > > > the > > > > > > > latest > > > > > > > > > > > changes > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > main before they are released. If they checkout > > main > > > > > > branch, > > > > > > > > > since, > > > > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > default, examples on main point to 999-SNAPSHOT > > > version, > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > > > > > > latest snapshot, which is a good alternative for > > > users > > > > > that > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wait for a release to perform experiments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, I think your latest proposal is great. > > We > > > keep > > > > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is and release examples separately. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 1:17 AM Alex Porcelli < > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for sharing your perspective, Francisco. > > You > > > > > > raise a > > > > > > > > > valid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > point about user experience; however having a > > > dedicated > > > > > > > > > examples > > > > > > > > > > > repo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doesn’t necessarily help if it isn’t properly > > > > > > > maintained—what’s > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > purpose of an examples repository if it doesn’t > > > > > reference > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One idea to address this, which we could borrow > > > from > > > > > our > > > > > > > IBM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > colleagues, is to create a separate release > > > artifact > > > > > for > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We could then publish the artifact content > into a > > > > > > dedicated > > > > > > > > > > > repository > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > manually whenever we cut a release. This way: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Maintenance & Integration: We still integrate > > the > > > > > > > examples in > > > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > main build process (so they remain aligned with > > > each > > > > > > > release). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - User-Friendly Browsing: At the same time, the > > > > > > standalone > > > > > > > > > > examples > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > repository remains easy to browse, avoiding the > > > > > > complexity > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > > large, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all-in-one codebase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This approach keeps the examples maintained in > > sync > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > releases > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > while offering a simpler path for users to find > > and > > > > > > explore > > > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without wading through the entire repository > > > > > > > structure—which > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > overwhelming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I volunteer myself to adjust the CI to produce > > this > > > > > > > artifact in > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release pipeline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 7, 2025 at 6:51 AM Francisco Javier > > > Tirado > > > > > > > Sarti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can see why it is easier, from a technical > > > point of > > > > > > > view, > > > > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > examples rely on tooling, to move all > examples > > to > > > > > > tooling > > > > > > > > > repo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I hardly see why this makes users' > > > > > experience > > > > > > > > > better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me elaborate, With examples repo, we > > > currently > > > > > > have a > > > > > > > > > place > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > users > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can browse all examples starting from the > repo > > > root. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With tooling repo, I guess they will start > > > browsing > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > > > > examples > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directory? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are going for technical simplicity, I > > > guess it > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > > > > > > > time to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > coherent and move all KIE content under the > > same > > > repo > > > > > > > (I'm > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > it, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have the feeling that there is a majority > in > > > favour > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time to vote?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which I feel is really awkward is to have > > > different > > > > > > > > > strategies > > > > > > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same label (some content in some separate > repos > > > and > > > > > > > gradually > > > > > > > > > > > moving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything to a repo named "tools" which is > not > > > > > really > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > "tools" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anymore) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 5:26 PM Jason Porter > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know it makes for a larger repo, but I’m > > all > > > for > > > > > > > fewer > > > > > > > > > > > > > repositories, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an easier setup for not only contributors, > > but > > > all > > > > > > > users. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason Porter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Software Engineer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He/Him/His > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IBM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Monday, January 6, 2025 at 03:01 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected] <[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] [DISCUSS] Missing > > > > > kogito-examples > > > > > > > > > update > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10.0.0 release! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Happy new 2025, everyone! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As we discussed when we started the 10.0.0 > > > release > > > > > > > process, > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kogito-examples repository was neither > > > included in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > release > > > > > > > > > > > nor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fully > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > integrated into CI. Although some PR checks > > > > > consider > > > > > > > > > > > > > kogito-examples, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gap ultimately led to absent examples for > the > > > > > 10.0.0 > > > > > > > > > release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - The stable branch remains on versions > 1.44 > > > and > > > > > 8.44 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - The main branch is on 999-SNAPSHOT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given that many of the kogito-examples rely > > on > > > > > > > container > > > > > > > > > > > images and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dev UI, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we'd need to incorporate the repository > into > > > our CI > > > > > > > system > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > improve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > current situation, which might take some > time > > > and > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > likely > > > > > > > > > > > > > impact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > upcoming releases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alternatively, we could move the examples > to > > > > > > kie-tools > > > > > > > (a > > > > > > > > > > repo > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hosts all images and DevUI) so no CI > changes > > > would > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would love to hear your thoughts, > > alternative > > > > > > ideas, > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > concerns > > > > > > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can have an actionable plan to do better in > > the > > > > > next > > > > > > > > > release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > > >
