> The areas where some clarity would be useful (to put it mildly) include: license, ownership of copyright, developer resources, and so >on and so forth.
Are there any discussions / decisions regarding this? On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Alexandro Colorado <j...@openoffice.org>wrote: > Well I guess this is more than what I expect from a ping, and had silently > followed the discussion. I have also talked with community developers of OOo > (non oracle employees that work on the OOo project). And have discussed OOos > future and also internal systems that now seems to be like a being in an > isolated chamber of a sinking ship. Sure you are isolated from the noise, > but the whole infrastructure is starting to come to a halt. > > The issue here is how much of the infrastructure really depend on Oracle's > infrastructure where admins stop managing the process and build machines > stop producing new builds. > > At the same time, I do share some of the views on how to move forward. My > personal view (which is not set in stone) is that OOo will need to either > start generating infrastructure on the hands of the community and out of > Oracle's management. > > I do have my questions regarding the whole topic of money, sure we do need > money, but I doubt we need 10m like louis mentions. I also doubt is worth to > do mostly a maintenance. And have been looking the other way which is > dismantle the software, re-engineer the processes on more modern language > and be able to adapt pieces of it to more flexible paradigm of development. > > Other teams like Mozilla did this with Mozilla's original browser. And cost > around 2 years of quiet period and just minor releases until Firefox came to > town. > > OOo has very old html engine, very old graphic engine and also seems that > most of the efforts in the past (UX, www-at-odf) didn't really make an > impact on the application. I don't think this was a lack of will but rather > a lack of communication between the company to recruit contributions. I > think one big fault of OOo is the lack of power to consolidate contributions > from developers."The year of the developer" never really came and we are > still stuck on thinking money first and code second. Which is what I think > leadership should shift to a more development centric manner. > > > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 3:05 AM, Louis Suarez-Potts < > lsuarezpo...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> All, >> >> The OpenOffice.org Community is obviously in a state of change. I think a >> crucial element to us all moving ahead is to establish and then act on, in >> good faith, those areas where we—OOo and LO communities (aspects of the same >> thing) can work together and reconcile differences. >> >> Let me start by stating that we, Stefan Taxhet, André Schnabel, Florian >> Effenberger, and I, will be holding a teleconference later this week to >> further put into place those things that need to be done to move ahead. >> >> The Most Important Thing from my perspective, is that the broader >> community understand that they are contributing to building this together, >> and coupled to that, that our users, public sector as well as individual >> consumers, and private companies big and small, have the confidence to >> continue using ODF implementations based on OpenOffice.org source. >> >> I think that all of us here in OOo-land appreciate the problems OOo was >> born with and never really corrected, and that these relate as much to how >> code and other contributions are encouraged and also accepted (or not). And >> I think that to move forward, especially now in light of Oracle's 15 April >> announcement, means that we can re-evaluate elemental procedures so that the >> overall community can work together. >> >> But the basic issues I referred to before still apply—money, in short—and >> on that subject, we need to hold fire and be patient. There are numerous >> unknowns circulating, still. However, we can, and we shall, in the >> meanwhile, talk. >> >> To reiterate: My personal goal is to have a community project whose >> identity is not a proxy for this or that company but the unique ensemble of >> all its contributors, bound together by a common goal of building the best >> and most universally usable set of productivity tools implementing the ODF. >> And that we look to the future while tending to the present: satisfy the >> needs of the desktop users but cock an eye to the sky and imagine ODF >> implementations that freely move us into Cloud. >> >> -louis >> >> >> On 2011-05-20, at 14:03 , Bernhard Dippold wrote: >> >> > Hi Louis, all, >> > >> > it is great, that you still feel responsible for the OOo community - >> > even if the way you perform this responsibility causes some thoughts... >> > >> > You have been Sun's OpenOffice.org Community Manager >> > and later on Oracle's Community Manager until you left Oracle >> > some months ago. >> > >> > As far as I know this post has never been open for election by the >> > community, it has been given to you by your former >> > employer and I don't know about it's validity after you left Oracle. >> > >> > But I want to address you as OpenOffice org community member - a >> community I myself feel affiliated for more than six years. >> > >> > Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> On 2011-05-13, at 04:39 , Ian Lynch wrote: >> >> >> >>> I know this might be a bit of an emotive topic for some, but >> >>> wouldn't it be an idea to open up dialogue with the LibreOffice >> >>> people? A split community was never an ideal situation from a >> >>> simple logical point of view. >> > >> > A split had to be accepted when the foundation had been set up, but TDF >> > has always been open to any contributor and invited not only Oracle but >> > all the people hesitant to join a broader basis with less influence by >> > single companies. >> > >> >>> Ok, there are emotional wounds to heal but talking about >> >>> possibilities without any commitment on either side can't do any >> >>> harm. >> > >> > I fully support any discussion between OOo and TDF community members. >> > In my opinion our split community can be reunited quite easily, if >> > everybody looks for the goals she/he has with our office suite and how >> > we can achieve them. >> > >> >>> Maybe this is already happening? >> > >> > In an open community (or if you prefer: among two open communities) this >> > should done on the mailing lists, so thank you for this question. >> > >> > Actually I hope that there will be more friendly discussion among TDF >> and OOo community members, leading to the perception of positive interaction >> and common goals. >> >> >> >> Actually, Florian and I are discussing that exactly. The days of >> >> stiff difference are over with; were over with when Oracle renounced >> >> OOo as a revenue source. And in their lieu, discussions of >> >> reconciliation. >> > >> > Sorry, not being a native speaker, I can't really understand what you're >> > talking about - and Google translator doesn't help very much either. >> > >> > So you mean that the time where Florian was "persona non grata" for >> > OpenOffice.org is over, because Oracle dropped commercial support for >> > the community? >> > >> > And does reconciliation mean that you start to imagine, that the TDF >> > founders might have been right in working on the ten year old vision of >> > an independent foundation *before* Oracle might drop any support for the >> > community? >> > >> > We still don't know if dropping commercial support means to close the >> > entire infrastructure and sell the trademark to somebody else (I still >> > hope they don't, but it is a monetary issue, and Oracle is said to be >> > aware of costs and money). >> > >> > Without the Document Foundation our community's situation would be even >> > more problematic. >> > >> > It took several months to create a working infrastructure - of course >> > there are tasks not finished by now, but the infrastructure is able to >> provide the product for download and support the community in their work. >> > >> >> To be sure, there are still personal differences. These are, to me, >> >> not irrelevant but ought not to stop the development of the code by >> >> the larger community. >> > >> > Every now and then during the last 10 years there have been personal >> differences, but they have always been considered less relevant than the >> work we did and still do for our community. >> > >> > Code development is done by the larger community. >> > >> > While the gap created by the uncertainties after the Oracle announcement >> > seems to get broader and broader with no visible release activities >> > after beta1 for OOo3.4.0 (two days before this announcement), the >> > community developers working on LibreOffice removed bugs (even quite >> > visible bugs) on their version, so the development is going on. >> > >> > >> >> What counts, what makes up, what comprises that larger community is >> >> of some debate. We need a lot of money to develop the code. >> > >> > Right. We need corporate contributors. Some of the already contribute to >> > LibreOffice, overcoming the hindrances of one main contributor with >> > nearly unlimited control. >> > >> >> We need, that is, far more than LibreOffice or TDF or any single >> >> company can probably provide. >> > >> > LibreOffice and TDF are no company, they just do, what we should have >> > done earlier in the past: Provide a basis where contributors can do >> > their work, where companies and corporations can share their interest, >> > but know that none of them will have the force to define any rules or >> > modify the foundations mission. >> > >> > Based on this ideas, TDF raised 50.000 Euro (mainly by small donations - >> > probably users and small companies) in only 8 days. >> > >> > Imagine large corporations start to support the community, because they >> > don't have to fear the influence of any single main sponsor - provide >> > money, code contributors, helping out the community with other issues... >> > >> >> Figure more than 10M USD/annum. That's to develop the code, test it, >> >> distribute it, and move ahead into areas that go beyond the limits of >> >> legacy. >> > >> > It's a challenge - but based on the efforts the community already did by >> > creating TDF it is much more likely to be achieved than if the few >> > people staying here try to raise such an amount on their own. >> >> >> >> Unfortunately, for something like OOo, a "community effort," still >> >> needs huge buckets of money. It's not about corporations, per se. >> >> It's about needing to get dedicated developers, one way or another, >> >> working on the code, so that it can be reliably produced, and >> >> satisfy the most demanding expectations. >> > >> > Right - that's what is done with LibreOffice. >> >> >> >> Meanwhile, I continue to drive ODF interest, and continue to >> >> represent OOo at ODF events; and continue to represent, as much as I >> >> can, as energetically as I can, to the world. >> > >> > You drive what? >> > >> > You still try to make the world believe that LibreOffice is nothing but >> > Novell's contribution to Microsoft's universe because there is a very >> > small area of code development based on a contract among them. >> > >> > You don't do ODF and the entire FOSS ecosystem a favor if you declare, >> > that there would be no reliable alternative to MS Office anymore for >> > people fearing that the lack of activity in the OOo project might cause >> > their adoption to fail. >> > >> >> I have no animus toward LibreOffice, though I do have my share of >> >> doubts; >> > >> > What you tell us here and in your blog, is much more than animus - >> > please see below. >> > >> >> but my spirit is stamped with OOo, its community, its goal, of >> >> providing reliable and reliably, the best productivity tools there >> >> are to the most people. >> > >> > My goals have not changed during the last years, and I'm not alone - >> > there is a large number of community members having spent hundreds or >> > thousands of hours in their spare time for this community and its goals. >> > >> > But we don't insist on the name - it's the community's spirit that lives >> on. >> > >> > Create and maintain the best open source office productivity suite. >> > >> > Be part of the community that stands behind this suite and have >> > influence by real merit: Every community member contributing for more >> > than just a short period is able to elect the Board of Directors and be >> > elected to it. >> > >> >> >> >> -louis >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> [...] >> >>> >> >>> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Louis Suarez-Potts >> >>> <lsuarezpo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> [...] >> >>>> >> >>>> It is not even the case that other projects using OOo technology >> >>>> have that much greater insight. They do not. >> > >> > This clearly addresses LibreOffice and TDF. >> > >> >>>> They may have more activity, but absent the energy of >> >>>> production, there is no production of energy. >> > >> > And you tell the world that there would not be productive work over >> there? >> > >> > Together with the accusations against the Novell employees, ignorance of >> > the large number of other developers, and repeatedly mentioning your >> > "doubts" about LibreOffice you create an image that doesn't describes >> > you as possible contact for reconciliation and re-unification of our >> > large community. >> > >> > If Oracle wants to drop support for the infrastructure and code >> > development (and I can't understand the cessation of the release cycle >> > and the mailing list migration differently), this will be the only way >> > to survive as the open source alternative to MS Office: >> > >> > Coordinate and integrate the community's work in both parts of the >> > community back to the open and integrative community I love to work for >> > during the last 6 years. >> > >> > But you are not the person I want to be represented by. >> > I want to work together with the entire community in order to overcome >> > this very dangerous situation not only for OpenOffice.org, but for the >> > broader FOSS community and their acceptance in public too. >> > >> > Your comments, blogs and interviews don't show any integrative ideas, >> > but try to damage LibreOffice and TDF on different levels instead of >> > using the unique chance to re-unite our community leading to the highest >> > strength and best position for our office suite in the current tangled >> > situation. >> > >> > Best regards >> > >> > Bernhard >> > >> > PS: You probably know that I neither have any formal role in the OOo >> community nor in TDF. This mail is just my personal opinion as community >> member trying to further our office suite in any way I can. >> > -- >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org >> > For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org >> > with Subject: help >> >> -- >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org >> For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org >> with Subject: help >> > > > > -- > *Alexandro Colorado* > *OpenOffice.org* Español > http://es.openoffice.org > > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
