On 7-Aug-08, at 9:21 AM, Brett Porter wrote:
On 08/08/2008, at 1:04 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
We should be focusing on the release candidate in the short term.
Of course.
As far as 2.1 discussions so productive discussion will happen 1)
unless people have the necessary background, and 2) are given
enough time to prepare.
That's why I suggested it 4 days early, but that's fine.
Not long enough for people working during the day and probably have
plans for the given week at the beginning of the week. Pretty normal.
I'm not really sure what background you think "people" are missing?
I just saw your commit that lists some 8 things to do before
discussing anything. That is back to front, first of all.
There are discussions on the mailing list and IRC all the time, but
these are for people who have been doing work in the core or sub-
systems. To bring in anyone cold, to get them involved they need some
background if you are going to expose something more then what the POM
might look like or how it would work from a user perspective. No one
is stalled on a grand unified document. The document I'm trying to
create is an attempt to bring in people outside our normal realm. No
one from the outside would possibly have a clue what's happened. I bet
most folks here on the list haven't kept track of a slew of organic
changes. I want to capture them to see if they are really needed,
whether cull the, change them. Anyone here can easily find out what's
happened by asking. A lot of people on the dev list or the user list
would have no chance and that document is the only semi-comprehensive
place to start.
What I'm trying to capture in that document are some of the reasons
changes were made, what drove some work to be done. Why the embedder
was created, by maven-artifact is a dead-end, why the model of
execution needs to be known upfront and separated from the execution,
why we need separated execution environments for different versions of
APIs. I think these are useful for people to know if they are actually
going to dig in and help.
If you want to know something specifically or work on something
specifically then bring it up. Start with something concrete. I do
want something more unified, a play book as it were. I'll put a draft
of that document in the wiki later tonight, and I think you need to
give people a clear week to setup a group call or IRC discussion and
some plan of what we would talk about or the conversation will just
degrade and be ineffectual.
But that doesn't mean you can't ask someone in IRC or on the mailing
list about something specific.
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
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In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
-- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
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