On 2009-12-30, at 1:03 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote:

> 
> On 2009-12-30, at 12:03 PM, Ralph Goers wrote:
> 
>> I don't know why you are trying to shut off this discussion.  
>> 
> 
> I am busy trying to do work that's necessary for 3.0.
> 
>> Of course we realize 3.0 is what it is.
> 
> No, I don't think you do. If you did you would be helping more with 3.0 
> instead of trying to discuss beyond it. I'm just going to bite my tongue as I 
> don't think what I would say to you would be very constructive.
> 
> You want a model of how things should work, look at what Dan and Kristian did 
> with the parallelization. 
> 

Here I also should have added that what Olivier is doing with the site plugin 
is extremely helpful. He just stepped in and started working on it. We didn't 
need to have a massive email exchange to get that going either. Ask some 
questions, talk to someone on IRC (oh no!, not IRC!) and start working. It's 
that simple.

>> I'm not looking for 3.0 to sit in limbo longer.  At the same time, I have 
>> wanted the feature below for years. It wasn't doable with the current code 
>> base. If 3.0 changes that then great, but if it isn't any more doable with 
>> 3.0 then I guess I'm not sure what was gained.
>> 
> 
> Then you can figure that out with the rest of the users. I don't know what to 
> tell you. You make me just want to give up on the Maven committers and the 
> Maven PMC in general. You don't think the ITs that have been added, the 
> plugin tests, the performance framework, fixing embedding are not critical 
> for any sort of meaningful future of the project? What has been gained? Are 
> you kidding? Try and look beyond what you want to do.
> 
>> Ralph
>> 
>> On Dec 30, 2009, at 6:47 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>> 
>>> Same thing, please focus on 3.0.
>>> 
>>> On 2009-12-30, at 3:22 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 29, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't agree with Ralph that there needs to be a general POM extension 
>>>>> mechanism. It's going to happen primarily inside plugins.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> So what you are saying is that one extension point is in the plugin 
>>>> configuration. That's fine but it isn't enough.
>>>> 
>>>> I am going to continue to argue that Maven is semi-broken until it can 
>>>> support the equivalent of 
>>>> http://www.rpm.org/max-rpm/s1-rpm-inside-tags.html in the section on 
>>>> dependency tags. This absolutely requires a project descriptor change. Of 
>>>> course, it would make even more sense to specify plugins in the project 
>>>> based on the capabilities that are required, not the version. I've 
>>>> included an example below. Today this can't be implemented. However, if 
>>>> the descriptor was somehow extensible it could be.
>>>> 
>>>> And even if this does get implemented someday, I'm absolutely sure that 
>>>> the next day someone is going to dream up something else that requires yet 
>>>> another change to the descriptor. In the past we have avoided this by 
>>>> resorting to hacks in the code and/or making spaghetti.  IMO making the 
>>>> bold statement that extensions won't be needed is a sure way to box 
>>>> ourselves into a corner.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Here is an example of what I am talking about. 
>>>> 
>>>> The example below shows the common case where a library uses 
>>>> commons-logging but the application actually wants to use slf4j. Today you 
>>>> either have to do some excludes or you have to use the 
>>>> commons-logging-99-does-not-exist hack. Instead, commons logging and SLF4J 
>>>> declare what version of the APIs they support. Spring then just requires 
>>>> the version of commons-logging-api it needs. By specifying SLF4J in the 
>>>> main project's dependency management commons-logging will not be included 
>>>> since the required component is specified in the parent project.  Notice 
>>>> also that the spring project doesn't have to specify a provides element 
>>>> since the groupId + artifactId would implicitly be declared as being 
>>>> provided.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> <project groupId="org.apache.commons" artifactId="commons-logging"  
>>>> version="1.2">
>>>> <provides>
>>>> <provide id="commons-logging-api" version="1.1"/>
>>>> <provide id="commons-logging-api" version="1.2"/>
>>>> </provides>
>>>> </project>
>>>> 
>>>> <project groupId="org.slf4j" artifactId="jcl-over-slf4j" version="2.0">
>>>> <provides>
>>>> <provide id="commons-logging-api" version="1.1"/>
>>>> </provides>
>>>> </project>
>>>> 
>>>> <project groupId="com.mycorp.test"  artifactId="myapp" version="1.0">
>>>> <dependencyManagement>
>>>>  <dependencies>
>>>>     <dependency groupId="org.slf4j" artifactId="jcl-over-slf4j" 
>>>> version="2.0"/>       
>>>>  </dependencies>
>>>> </dependencyManagement>
>>>> <dependencies>
>>>> <requires id="org.springsource.spring-core">
>>>>   <version compare="ge">3.1</version>
>>>> </requires>
>>>> <dependencies>
>>>> </project>
>>>> 
>>>> <project groupId="org.springsource" artifactId="spring-core" version="3.1">
>>>> <dependencyManagement>
>>>>  <dependencies>
>>>>     <dependency groupId="org.apache.commons" artifactId="commons-logging" 
>>>> version="1.2"/>       
>>>>  </dependencies>
>>>> </dependencyManagement>  <depencencies>
>>>>  <requires id="commons-logging-api" version="1.1"/>
>>>> </dependencies>
>>>> </project>
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Jason
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> Jason van Zyl
>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jason
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder,  Apache Maven
> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> 

Thanks,

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder,  Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
----------------------------------------------------------


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