On Aug 7, 2010, at 1:44 AM, Brett Porter wrote: > > > And doesn't that show that you could have done the same thing with Aether? :) >
Could happen with anything, it's only dependent on what people do. >>> It is not an easily reversible step, and I want to ensure that anyone that >>> wants to get an improvement into Maven doesn't have to navigate the >>> different controls and infrastructure of another project. >> >> Unavoidable. We're not going to bring in everyone other dependency and any >> developer worth their salt can figure out how to pull in sources for >> dependent projects. Aether is all JIRA and Confluence it's not a big leap >> for anyone here. The barrier is not and never will be the infrastructure, >> it's people's time and willingness to contribute. >> > > I continue to disagree. Time/willingess is #1, but the pain of tracking two > of everything takes away from the time and willingness one has. We've seen it > too many times before. Then we can agree to disagree. It's not going to stop anyone who starts with doing and not talking and it's pretty much all avoided by spending 5 minutes talking to someone on IRC. It's not a big deal. I will always stand by the reasoning that good tooling is the only true solution to breaking down the barriers. Any contributor should be guided to do the right thing. > >>> I lived through the worst of it in Maven 2.0/Plexus/Modello/etc. and it >>> drove me crazy. >> >> It's no different now. We still have Modello and now Guice which none of you >> have any control over. We are very fortunate to have Stuart working with us >> at Sonatype who is a committer but by your measure this is worse. Totally >> different infrastructure and no access. > > Guice is an improvement because it reduces our exposure. Guice itself is a > fairly known quantity, so we may only have to deal with issues in the shim or > the rare one in Guice, not having to maintain all of plexus. I went through > exactly the same thing with the plexus-spring bridge in Archiva, and it made > things much easier (and I hope we might consider using the guice bridge there > too). I expect us to work at improving the Maven APIs to use Guice directly, > but other than that the hard work has been done (thanks!). There's no reason > for Maven to need to make significant enhancements to the underlying stuff in > the future. > > Aether would be a completely different story. Any time an MNG issue could be > filed that means I need to file an AETHER issue, I consider that a problem. > Apart from the next few weeks, I think that'll be rare for the shim. It's > probably 1/3rd of open MNG issues for Aether though. > I think this is the nature of the old code, and Aether will be more like Guice. Aether and it will just fade into the background like anything else. Anyone can find an excuse not to do something. If there are 5 people contributing to Aether by the end of the year I'll be ecstatic. I don't think issue tracking systems are the barrier, it's just hard code to write. > Moving on, it seems you've answered my technical concerns from a Maven3 PoV, > so I'm not objecting to this landing on trunk as is. > > I'll repeat that I remain reluctant to see an important part of the project's > scope heading out of its governance. I can't force it to happen, but I'd > again strongly urge you to reconsider hosting the core part as a subproject > here (and by all means bring Alin on board as the other main contributor to > it so far). I would gladly help with that. Continue to use github and > whatever else forked from that repo to work on improvements that aren't > important to Maven with others. If in the future it starts to shape like > something that is quite stable from Maven's point of view, and the scope > outgrowing it, then graduate to a TLP, Eclipse, or wherever seems appropriate. > > I know the tone of this thread in parts hasn't been particularly helpful and > maybe isn't conducive to wanting to do that. A lot of that is knee-jerk stuff > that should die down moving forward as people get on with it. I could be > wrong, but I still think that if you ran a poll of committers who have a > stake in Maven3 development, you'd find a preference for hosting it here. If > I'm right, I think that's worth taking into consideration. If it does not flourish outside of Apache, then I honestly won't have a preference. But I believe it will and just because some of you don't like it doesn't mean I should have to kill the experiment. One of the reasons I don't want it here is pure lack of involvement and I do not think that can all be dropped at my feet and what Sonatype has or hasn't done. If after six months it's all people from Maven contributing and no one else I will admit I thought wrong and happily push it back here. Hervé is already participating on the Aether dev list and I encourage others to do the same. > > Thanks, > Brett > > -- > Brett Porter > br...@apache.org > http://brettporter.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org > Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------- Jason van Zyl Founder, Apache Maven http://twitter.com/jvanzyl --------------------------------------------------------- You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They know it is going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kind of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt. -- Robert Pirzig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
