Gavin,

When you sent your message containing the words, "ignore me," I was
planning to take you at your word. But since you seem to have
continued to continue your campaign of sneer here I guess I'll
respond.

1: As it turned out, the vote that started all this concerned 10
issues. I was misled by a JIRA feature.

2: The amount of developer work that goes in is not proportional to
the number of JIRAs that come out.

3: The amount of user value that comes out is not proportional to the
number of JIRAs that go in.

4: An Apache principle is to encourage people to scratch their itches.
This doesn't work if the change you desperately need gets trapped for
months waiting for a release. Or, worse, if you get 'held hostage' by
demands to fix additional problems that you don't have the expertise
to tackle a the price of a release of what you need to fix.

All in all, it is very handy that Maven has an automated release
process that takes the RM 5 minutes and some PMC members a few more to
validate his or her work. This lowers the activation energy.

Is there some particular reason why you've chosen to blow a whistle
about this particular question?

--benson


On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 6:08 AM, Stephen Connolly
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On 20 June 2011 10:48, Gavin McDonald <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Lukas Theussl [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lukas Theussl
>>> Sent: Monday, 20 June 2011 7:25 PM
>>> To: Maven Developers List
>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE]: release maven-changes-plugin 2.6
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gavin McDonald wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: Benson Margulies [mailto:[email protected]]
>>> >> Sent: Sunday, 19 June 2011 6:08 AM
>>> >> To: Maven Developers List; Maven Project Management Committee List
>>> >> Subject: [VOTE]: release maven-changes-plugin 2.6
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi,
>>> >>
>>> >> We solved 3 issues:
>>> >
>>> > Really? You'd release a product after solving 3 issues?
>>> >
>>> > Having looked at those 3 issues I believe it can wait for more.
>>>
>>> Really? And what in your opinion would be the threshold for a release? 5
>>> issues? 16? And if there are no open issues left, do we have to wait for
>>> people to find 8 more before we can release it?
>>
>> Depends on the quality and quantity, whether it fixes a security issue, 
>> introduces a
>> new must have feature, etc.
>>
>> I would happily vote +1 for a one line security fix. Context is everything.
>>
>>>
>>> Seriously, I think this posting will easily make it on our list of 10 most 
>>> pointless
>>> contributions of the year.
>>
>> Do not criticise me for making a vote statement.
>>
>> It was not a contribution, it was a statement regarding the vote, which 
>> anyone is
>> entitled to do.
>>
>>> When to call a vote for a release is solely the
>>> decision of the release manager, and the number of issues is simply
>>> irrelevant.
>>
>> Of course, but am I not entitled to express my vote and supporting 
>> statement, or
>> are all votes expected to be +1 with no comments.
>
> You are entitled to express your vote and supporting statement, but
> the vote is expected to be based on whether the artifacts are
> releasable or not.  So if for example you identify an issue with the
> built software, that could be a -1 or -0. Note that you cannot veto
> releases.  A -1 can be ignored by the release manager.
>
>>
>> What do you base your vote on exactly?
>>
>
> There are strict criteria for the PMC on which we are supposed to base
> our vote on.  There are legal requirements that mandate that any
> release from Apache must have at least three +1 votes from the PMC for
> that Apache project.
>
> Each voting PMC member is required to ensure that releases meet the following:
>
> * Every ASF release must contain a source package, which must be
> sufficient for a user to build and test the release provided they have
> access to the appropriate platform and tools. The source package must
> be cryptographically signed by the Release Manager with a detached
> signature; and that package together with its signature must be tested
> prior to voting +1 for release. Folks who vote +1 for release may
> offer their own cryptographic signature to be concatenated with the
> detached signature file (at the Release Manager's discretion) prior to
> release.
>
> * Note that the PMC is responsible for all artifacts in their
> distribution directory, which is a subdirectory of
> www.apache.org/dist/ ; and all artifacts placed in their directory
> must be signed by a committer, preferably by a PMC member. It is also
> necessary for the PMC to ensure that the source package is sufficient
> to build any binary artifacts associated with the release.
>
> * Every ASF release must comply with ASF licensing policy. This
> requirement is of utmost importance and an audit should be performed
> before any full release is created. In particular, every artifact
> distributed must contain appropriate LICENSE and NOTICE files. More
> information can be found in the foundation website and in the release
> licensing FAQ.
>
>> Rolling a new release for a few lines of code that fixes a couple of bugs 
>> and does not
>> introduce any new functionality is overkill IMHO.
>
> There are a lot of companies out there who will make their employees
> jump through hoops if they want to built with a patched version of
> build tools that has not come from the build tool's distributor. Thus
> to help those people often times it is necessary to roll a release
> with the few lines of code as the issue _IS_BLOCKING_TO_THEM_ might be
> non-blocking to everyone else.
>
> We want people to play nice by the community. So please remember that
> often times these things are done to support the community. What
> people do not like is when the efforts of volunteers are criticized
> for not being "enough" work... we are not paid for doing this work, we
> do this in our spare time. Sometimes we get abuse from our spouses for
> working on this in our spare time... if all we have time to to is roll
> out a release with one minor (to you) fix, and no fixes for the issue
> you have... well why don't you STEP UP and provide a patch for that
> issue, and you know what, a committer might just pick up that patch
> and apply the patch and roll a release with that one minor (to them)
> fix included.
>
>>
>> But I will stay out of such votes/threads/opinions in the future , do what I 
>> joined this
>> list for, then leave when I'm done.
>>
>
> Actually, don't. Stay and enrich our community
>
> We welcome people I am disappointed that you have taken criticism of
> your critique personally. Please reconsider. We welcome all votes and
> opinions (provided they respect the fact that everyone is a volunteer
> here). Your critique was not respecting that fact, so your critique
> (rightly) got criticism. That does not reflect an opinion on you
> personally.
>
> W.R.T. votes on releases, there is a legal requirement for there to be
> votes on releases, and the legal requirement mandates that the PMC
> must provide at least 3 +1 votes for each release. We welcome others
> to add their votes, but there is no requirement for you to vote. If
> there is a vote on a release which you feel is too small of a change
> to be worth your (volunteer) time testing... don't test it!
>
> That is the key feedback mechanism that will prevent people releasing
> too often... if the PMC becomes overloaded testing releases from
> somebody, well they will take longer and longer to get around to
> testing Joe Committer's releases of the Maven LotsOfSmallChanges
> Plugin and he will be slowed down in getting his releases out. You
> don't need to worry about that (unless you become Joe Committer and
> are making many releases with piddling small changes) ;-)
>
> -Stephen
>
>> Gav...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> -Lukas
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Don’t release for the sake of releasing.
>>> >
>>> > Gav...
>>> >
>>> > +-0 non-binding
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MCHANGES/fixforversion/17375
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> There are plenty of issues left in JIRA:
>>> >> http://jira.codehaus.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&jqlQue
>>> >> ry=
>>> >>
>>> project+%3D+MCHANGES+AND+status+%3D+Open+ORDER+BY+priority+DE
>>> >> SC&mode=hide
>>> >>
>>> >> Staging repo:
>>> >> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/maven-024/
>>> >>
>>> >> Staging site:
>>> >> http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-changes-plugin-2.6/
>>> >>
>>> >> Guide to testing staged releases:
>>> >> http://maven.apache.org/guides/development/guide-testing-
>>> releases.htm
>>> >> l
>>> >>
>>> >> Vote open for 72 hours.
>>> >>
>>> >> [ ] +1
>>> >> [ ] +0
>>> >> [ ] -1
>>> >>
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