My thoughts: 99.5% (or more) of the maven users will not care one way or another what logging impl we use. They won't configure anything beyond -X. They won't try changing loggers. They won't muck with the configs. Etc.. They just run "mvn" and expect it to work.
For the remaining <0.5%, no matter what we do, we will need to document things clearly about how to configure things. For these folks, they are generally "experts" and thus a couple extra steps to replace a logging framework, edit configs, etc… is not a big deal at all. (again, DOCUMENT this all clearly or provide a nice maven plugin or something to do it for them) My preference, in order: slf4j-jdk14 slf4j-simple log4j2 slf4j-log4j and then a big gap to logback. The first two are there as they would provide the least amount of "extra dependencies", complexity, etc… That said, we know slf4j-simple has issues. Not sure if anyone has even tried slf4j-jdk14. For our CLI case, I don't see any advantage of logback over log4j2 or slf4j-log4j. If the entire argument is around wanting something "battle tested", go for slf4j-log4j. It's certainly used by more projects than logback and more people would already know it's configuration options. Personally, I find the "number of projects" argument annoying and mostly irrelevant. (and at least 2 of the "Apache 8" projects that are on the logback homepage don't use logback, they now use slf4j-log4j) Thus, it comes down to two major things for me: 1) License issues - (sorry Stephen, this IS an issue) I fully plan to vote -1 for logback if/when presented to the PMC for approval. There are very good options that would work just as well for our needs that are not EPL. 2) Community - Ceki is great, no doubt about it, but at the end of the day, logback is pretty much a one man show. Apache is more about "community" and "community over code" and all that. I strongly prefer something that has a community behind it, or, at the very least, is open to developing a community behind it. Major bonus points if that community already contains Maven PMC members/committers on it. If *we* run into issues, I strongly prefer that *we* can get those issues fixed. If two options are functionally and technically equivalent (within reasonable limits), then I'll take the community driven, permissive licensed version. That's my $0.02 worth. Dan On Dec 10, 2012, at 9:32 PM, Jason van Zyl <ja...@tesla.io> wrote: > Hi, > > I looked around a bit more today and I don't think SLF4J Simple is viable > long term, I don't want to patch it anymore as I would have to do a day's > work to make changes that keep the performance levels up, get it reviewed and > released, and I honestly don't think it's worth it anymore. I would rather > spend my time building out the plugin test cases and help to finish the > classloader blocking of SLF4J. I don't mind spending time getting it all > working but I don't want to waste my time on an implementation we're going to > toss. > > After a conversation with the PMC it will require a vote to accept Logback > which is EPL but I wanted to ask committers and interested users about using > Logback. I believe Logback is the best choice as it's the most mature and > battle tested implementation because once it goes in it's likely not ever to > come out. Many of us are users and have integration experience with Logback > and it's what I use everyday for logging in all my other projects and I've > been a happy user for years. I see Logback as best of breed and widely > adopted including 8 projects at Apache. > > There's no point in asking the PMC to vote on the acceptance of Logback if > it's not acceptable by the community. If there are interested users I would > really like to hear what you think because you're the ones who will have to > live with the choice that is made. > > Thanks, > > Jason > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Jason van Zyl > Founder & CTO, Sonatype > Founder, Apache Maven > http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > --------------------------------------------------------- > > To do two things at once is to do neither. > > -- Publilius Syrus, Roman slave, first century B.C. > > > > > -- Daniel Kulp dk...@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
