1. I agree bringing whole keras-mxnet repo as submodule in MXNet is not the right thing to do. I was mainly proposing, a stripped version of keras-mxnet which has keras interface with MXNet backend in to MXNet enabling MXNet users to use Keras interface natively within MXNet (Ex: mx.keras)
2. Review process in keras-team/keras has not passed due to design incompatibility with MXNet - Keras and NOT due to any Keras API interface issue or functionality exposed to users. Let me rephrase my proposal for comments - "Do we want to bring in Keras interface into MXNet?" Best, Sandeep On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 12:06 PM, Xingjian SHI <xsh...@connect.ust.hk> wrote: > It should at least pass the review process. However, the Keras-MXNet has > not passed the review by the keras team. > > > Best, > > Xingjian > > > ________________________________ > From: Naveen Swamy <mnnav...@gmail.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 3:04 AM > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet > > define - not mature? > > Are all new commits that go into MXNet mature ? > > On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Xingjian SHI <xsh...@connect.ust.hk> > wrote: > > > -1. We do not need to get the eyeballs this way. Asking users to use > > features that are not mature enough will only hurt the future development > > of MXNet. > > > > > > Xingjian > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Naveen Swamy <mnnav...@gmail.com> > > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:54 AM > > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org > > Subject: Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet > > > > The proposal is about bringing a forked version of Keras(that works only > > with MXNet) into Apache MXNet repo submodule that way MXNet gets more > > eyeballs from existing Keras users and eventually Gluon, etc., , like > > Sandeep mentioned Keras has a large user base which MXNet could tap into. > > > > On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Yao Wang <kevinthesu...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > -1 Creating Keras as submodule of MXNet will provide users a feeling > that > > > MXNet depends on Keras. Keras is a frontend library which can be > > supported > > > by various different backend framework. It would be better to add > backend > > > framework as Keras's submodule(Keras depends on MXNet) rather than > > > opposite. > > > > > > Best, > > > Yao > > > > > > 2018-03-23 11:44 GMT-07:00 Xingjian SHI <xsh...@connect.ust.hk>: > > > > > > > -1. I think we should wait until it's merged into keras-team/keras. > The > > > > repo is still not mature enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Xingjian > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: sandeep krishnamurthy <sandeep.krishn...@gmail.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 1:49 PM > > > > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org > > > > Subject: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet > > > > > > > > Hello MXNet Community, > > > > > > > > Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on > > > adding > > > > MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras > APIs > > > > across CNNs and RNNs. > > > > https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/ > keras2_mxnet_backend > [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https:// > github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend> > > deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning- > tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend> > github.com > keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano, or > CNTK. > > > > > [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https:// > > github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend> > > > > deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning- > > tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend> > > github.com > > keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano, or > > CNTK. > > > > > > > > > > [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4 > ]<https:// > > > > github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend> > > > > > > > > deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning- > > > > tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend> > > > > github.com > > > > keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano, > > or > > > > CNTK. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for > > including > > > > this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will > > enable > > > > providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose > > > Keras > > > > interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex: > > > > mx.keras). > > > > > > > > *Advantages:* > > > > > > > > 1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are > > > > familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we > enable > > > > many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve. > > > > > > > > 2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip > package, > > > > would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared > to > > > > releasing a fork repository independently. > > > > > > > > 3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest > > > > parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us > > > > provide users the core keras experience. Operational management. > > > > > > > > 4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and > > quality > > > > control. > > > > > > > > Please do share your comments on the proposal. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Sandeep > > > > > > > > *Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR > > > > <https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However, > due > > to > > > > multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant > re-work > > > on > > > > MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design > > concerns. > > > > Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we > are > > > > planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the > design > > > > challenges and workaround tried - > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y- > > > > VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing > > > > > > > > > > -- Sandeep Krishnamurthy
