+1
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 8:43 AM Steffen Rochel <steffenroc...@gmail.com> wrote: > I had a discussion yesterday with Jun Wu (wujun....@gmail.com) to get a > better understanding about the concerns raised, that users might get > confused and maintenance efforts. > I agree with Jim that building and fostering the community is important. > First of all, I suggest we should be open minded and not make claims that > we have a good understanding of user preferences. We might have insights > about preferences of current users (which I also would question as we > sampled only a small set), but we certainly don't have insight about the > preferences of new users we are trying to attract. > In such situation it might be better to run an experiment, offer choices > and collect real feedback - lets be customer focussed. > My suggestion is to establish a user@ list and support the list with a > volunteer subset of contributors and committers to minimize the maintenance > impact on the whole community. > After a reasonable time like 6 months we can evaluate the adoption of user@ > and effort to support and can make an informed, data driven decision how to > proceed. > > I recommend to create the user@ list and call for volunteers to support > the > list. > > Regards, > Steffen > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 8:10 AM Hagay Lupesko <lupe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > Earlier on the thread you suggested to clarify and expand on the usage > of a > > user@ mailing list and how it is useful for a project. > > > > It may be helpful for the community to learn a bit more about it. Could > you > > expand and/or share relevant links and examples? > > > > Thank you, > > Hagay > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 07:31 Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com> wrote: > > > > > Just so we are clear: building and fostering a community takes effort. > > > Either it is something important to the project, or it's not. > > > > > > My assumption is that It Is. > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 8:59 PM, YiZhi Liu <eazhi....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > I am personally not a big fan of mailing list but agree with Thomas > > > > that we may get extra users, which worth a try. > > > > On the other hand, I also have concern that we do not have a > community > > > > big enough to support multiple forums. If people asked questions but > > > > got no response, that can be worse than not having the mailing list > at > > > > all. > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:46 PM Thomas DELTEIL > > > > <thomas.delte...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> I was actually the one stating that we didn't need a user mailing > list > > > >> during the Seattle meetup, given all the reasons already exposed > > above. > > > >> > > > >> However given what proponents of a mailing list said, I personally > > > wouldn't > > > >> mind adding a new channel as a user mailing list, and monitoring it. > > > There > > > >> seems to be a subset of users, used to apache projects, that > wouldn't > > > use > > > >> the forum but would use a mailing list. Though I think it is not as > > > >> feature-rich as the forum and there is a risk of dilution of > > > information. > > > >> It is more about reaching those extra users. If we see a dilution of > > > >> traffic on the forum towards the mailing list (~currently 100 > > > posts/week) > > > >> then maybe we can reconsider our assumptions? > > > >> > > > >> All the best, > > > >> > > > >> Thomas Delteil > > > >> > > > >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 17:30 Pedro Larroy < > > pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> I agree with Tianqi, Eric and others. We shouldn't dilute the > > community > > > >>> with another forum. Disqus is already working and has healthy > > > >>> participation, you can get an email digest if you so desire. > > > Subscribing to > > > >>> a mailing list to get a question answered is quite a heavyweight > > > investment > > > >>> for many people and users who might not have the resources nor > mental > > > >>> bandwidth to receive more email volume in their inboxes. > > > >>> > > > >>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:19 AM Tianqi Chen < > > tqc...@cs.washington.edu > > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication > is > > > that > > > >>>> users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people > have > > to > > > >>>> watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and > many > > > users > > > >>>> prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Tianqi > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com> > > > wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and > low-overhead > > > way > > > >>> of > > > >>>>> *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of > > > >>> support. > > > >>>>> Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I > > would > > > >>>>> recommend we create the list. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen < > > tqc...@cs.washington.edu > > > > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users > > > prefers > > > >>>> the > > > >>>>>> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Tianqi > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < > > > wik...@apache.org > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope > we > > > are > > > >>>>>>> thinking a bit beyond that... > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen < > > tqc...@cs.washington.edu> > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we > did > > a > > > >>>>> survey, > > > >>>>>>>> and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would > > say > > > >>> we > > > >>>>>>> stick > > > >>>>>>>> with that given the user community prefers that > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Tianqi > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < > > > >>> wik...@apache.org > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list > > creation > > > >>> to > > > >>>>>>>> INFRA > > > >>>>>>>>> ;-) > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also > > > >>> subscribed > > > >>>>>>>> there, > > > >>>>>>>>> since they may be the most informed people for answering > users' > > > >>>>>>>> questions. > > > >>>>>>>>> But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for > > > pure > > > >>>>>>>>> development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ > > to > > > >>>> dev@, > > > >>>>>>>> but > > > >>>>>>>>> at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list > to > > > >>> the > > > >>>>>>>> other. > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > > >>>>>>>>> <marco.g.ab...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ > > to > > > >>>>>>> ensure > > > >>>>>>>>>> high > > > >>>>>>>>>> visibility initially. What do you think? > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian <s...@apache.org> schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, > > > 20:51: > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I have already proposed this many times in the past and > would > > > >>>>>>>> strongly > > > >>>>>>>>>>> encourage it. > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> -s > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a > > users@ > > > >>>>>>>>> mailing > > > >>>>>>>>>>> list > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> yet? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools > the > > > >>>>>>> podling > > > >>>>>>>>> is > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them > a > > > lot > > > >>>>>>> in > > > >>>>>>>>>> other > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, > > > >>>>>>> mailing > > > >>>>>>>>>> lists > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Users are the most important asset a project can have. > Even > > > >>> more > > > >>>>>>>> than > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a > > > users@ > > > >>>>>>>>>> mailing > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the > core > > > >>>>>>> team. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Yizhi Liu > > > > DMLC member > > > > Amazon Web Services > > > > Vancouver, Canada > > > > > > > > >
