I don't think users@ makes sense. I just looked at the past 30 days, and there *might* be 10 messages. That isn't exactly an encumbrance upon the dev list. So now you're talking about partitioning the overall community into smaller parts. Parts that cannot reach "critical mass".
Counterpoint: the Subversion project took THREE YEARS before creating a separate users list. Mynewt isn't anything close to a user-driven project like svn. And the project is just *months* old. The users of mynewt are unlikely to be noobs who cannot deal with people on the dev@ list. This is a low-level project. It seems irrational to believe they are not "lifting the hood" to look at the mynewt code; there is no "scaring them off". They are quite likely to be great participants in dev discussion. We want them *here* where we can talk with them. Cheers, -g On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Sterling Hughes <sterl...@apache.org> wrote: > +1 on a users mailing list, and I think David described it perfectly below. > > Originally, I was for all support being on dev@, as pointed out in other > mails, it is good for the project/code for developers to hear directly from > the users. IMO The best way to make a project easy to use and work well, > is to have developers do customer support: it appeals to both pride and > laziness. > > However, I think it can be intimidating to post to a dev@ list as a first > time user, especially on something like an OS. We want to make that as > easy as possible to get new users in. So, I'm for having a separate list, > BUT I think anyone developing on the project should strongly consider > joining that list and providing support. I certainly will be. > > Also, I like the new mailing list archive -- we should definitely link to > these on the doc pages. > > Cheers, > > Sterling > > > On 5/20/16 7:55 AM, David G. Simmons wrote: > >> As a n00b, I’ll chime in here with my experience so far … Just my $0.02, >> so take it as you will. I’ve been involved in a few ‘new’ >> product/protocol/platform development efforts over the years though. >> >> As a new user and (potential) developer, the lack of a ‘user’ list was >> (as another has previously stated) a bit intimidating. I’m not (yet) a >> mynewt developer, just a hacker trying to get stuff working. I finally bit >> the bullet and posted to the dev list and was obviously pleasantly >> surprised by both the speed and friendliness of the response. There is a >> LOT of value in having the folks actually developing the system see all the >> questions from the users. I know it can be a distraction from the ‘real’ >> work to get silly questions from new users, but in my experience, the >> success of a platform is in many ways highly dependent on the experience of >> new users. If someone new can’t start using the platform, then you wont’ >> have new users, and … >> >> I found the archives, and attempted to go through them as best I could in >> order to find answers to questions I was having initially. I figured most >> of them out on my own, from repeated trips through the docs, etc., but the >> email archives could be much more helpful. The problem is that the mail >> archives are … so 1998. Not searchable, only navigable by year/month, etc. >> Having a proper interface to the mail archives would make them much more >> useful to users. Even the mail-archive.com interface — which has search >> — would work nicely. Having a forum — along the lines of phpBB2, though >> those are notoriously hard to keep spammers out of — with an email-to-forum >> gateway would also be helpful. >> >> Back to hacking … >> >> dg >> >> >> >> >> On May 19, 2016, at 4:42 PM, James Pace <p...@runtime.io> wrote: >>> >>> I’d personally like to see these separated. Many of the comments that >>> are coming in are routine (though very informative) and do not inform the >>> design or development of Apache Mynewt. >>> >>> And, besides, it is likely that you will have “user” and “dev” sourced >>> to the same mailbox or mail filter! >>> >>> On May 19, 2016, at 11:12, p...@wrada.com wrote: >>> >>> I¹d prefer to keep them together for now. As this is new, I think that >>>> developers are going to learn a lot from the users issues or questions, >>>> and vice versa. I agree that this will get too much at some point, but >>>> I¹m really getting a lot from seeing the user and developer issues >>>> together. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/19/16, 11:08 AM, "aditi hilbert" <ad...@runtime.io> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> With Mynewt attracting an increasing number of both users and >>>>> developers >>>>> of various levels, it might make practical sense to have a users@ >>>>> mailing >>>>> list separate from dev@ mailing list. That way support questions about >>>>> product usage, asks, needs etc can be separated from >>>>> developer/design/architecture discussions. Of course, there has to be >>>>> communication between the two groups to build truly useful and usable >>>>> features, but we can bring some organization to it with the separate >>>>> mailing lists. Please comment on the suggestion. >>>>> >>>>> Let¹s keep this thread open through the weekend to gauge the general >>>>> response. >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> aditi >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> -- >> David G. Simmons >> (919) 534-5099 >> Web • Blog • Linkedin • Twitter • GitHub >> /** Message digitally signed for security and authenticity. >> * If you cannot read the PGP.sig attachment, please go to >> * http://www.gnupg.com/ Secure your email!!! >> * Public key available at keyserver.pgp.com >> **/ >> ♺ This email uses 100% recycled electrons. Don't blow it by printing! >> >> There are only 2 hard things in computer science: Cache invalidation, >> naming things, and off-by-one errors. >> >> >>
