I think the use-case Apache has in mind is something like Linux distributions. These would be (semi-)official organizations that will mostly repackage the Apache product, provide minor integration patches and then apply security patches, including back-porting patches.
--emi http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more! On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:23 PM Jan Lahoda <lah...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Frankly, I am not sure if the rules (must) be so strict. I mean, if someone > takes effectively unmodified Apache NetBeans, renames that and releases > that, that's (AFAIK, but IANAL) their right, and it is fine. But, if > someone wants to re-distribute effectively (for some meaningful sense) > unmodified Apache NetBeans under the NetBeans name, it is not so clear to > me the rules forbid that. I know about the link to the FAQs, but there's > also the policy itself: > https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ > > and the discussion and JIRA link I've sent a few days ago. And neither of > these feel so strict. > > Of course it must be clear this project is not doing the re-distribution, > etc. > > One of several things I am concerned of here is that if someone > re-distributes effectively unmodified NetBeans, then I think they are more > likely to contribute back than those that (for any reason) will use a > different name. Not contributing back is (AFAIK, but IANAL) fine per the > license, but I think it would be better if we used approaches that > encourage contributing back, rather than approaches that discourage > contributing back. > > Jan > > On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 3:46 PM Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Is it really such a big deal? Google took chunks of IntelliJ IDEA and > > made Android Studio. > > > > Branding NetBeans is not such a hurdle, I did it alone with CoolBeans. > > Surely Amazon/Oracle can afford to have an employee spend some time > > lightly rebranding NetBeans to something else then bundle it with > > whatever. > > > > If they want to promote NetBeans they could use the Apache-sanctioned > > 'Powered By Apache NetBeans', link to us, etc. > > > > So we (the (P)PMC) only have to define the 'Powered By' program then > > defend the trademark when we see it mis-used. > > > > --emi > > > > http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more! > > On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 1:11 PM Geertjan Wielenga > > <geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote: > > > > > > So, that bring us back to the question of bundling. > > > > > > Imagine Amazon or Oracle, for example, would want to bundle the Apache > > > NetBeans binaries with their JDK. > > > > > > Does that mean that they cannot use the name 'Apache NetBeans'? > > > > > > To some extent, that would not be a problem, I guess, since the most > > likely > > > scenario is that Amazon or Oracle would first add a few plugins of their > > > own (i.e., some kind of AWS connector etc) and only then would they > > bundle > > > the binary with their JDK. At that point, they'd have their own > > > distribution of Apache NetBeans and they'd call it something different > > > anyway, i.e., they wouldn't want to call it Apache NetBeans, they'd call > > it > > > 'Corretto SDK' or something like that. > > > > > > But, in any case, if they were to want to call it Apache NetBeans, they > > > would not be able to do so. > > > > > > Gj > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > That's good. The thing about trademarks is not only that we must > > > > announce it, we must also defend it. > > > > > > > > So we must also keep an eye on all the projects popping up that use > > > > the NetBeans trademarks (text and logo). > > > > > > > > --emi > > > > > > > > http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and > > more! > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 9:42 AM Antonio <anto...@vieiro.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > We now say, at the bottom of each web page, that > > > > > > > > > > "Apache Incubator, Apache, Apache NetBeans, NetBeans, the Apache > > feather > > > > > logo, the Apache NetBeans logo, and the Apache Incubator project logo > > > > > are trademarks of The Apache Software Foundation." > > > > > > > > > > Any comments/enhancements welcome. > > > > > > > > > > El 18/01/2019 a las 12:02, Jan Lahoda escribió: > > > > > > FWIW, there's a discussion on legal-discuss that is, I think, > > related > > > > to > > > > > > this thread: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201901.mbox/%3CCAK1xzDeKTOEpKED3PzTLuKkbtRi5ubv5AijcB%3DDvzo8PO0jU4w%40mail.gmail.com%3E > > > > > > > > > > > > And there's a link in that thread that may be somewhat relevant as > > > > well: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-427?focusedCommentId=16722198&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-16722198 > > > > > > > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 4:54 PM Emilian Bold < > > emilian.b...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Note that the Apache link is about trademarks. It makes no > > difference > > > > if > > > > > >> it's a convenience binary if the trademark is being (mis)used. It > > > > could > > > > > >> just be the name or logo. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --emi > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 at 16:32, Bertrand Delacretaz < > > > > bdelacre...@apache.org> > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> Hi, > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 1:44 PM Jan Lahoda <lah...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > >>>> ...Frankly, I wonder if there's a chance to allow some "good" > > uses, > > > > > >> like > > > > > >>> "X > > > > > >>>> with Apache NetBeans N" or a "Bundle of X and Apache NetBeans > > N", > > > > > >>> provided > > > > > >>>> some basic conditions are met,... > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Of course that's possible, as Geertjan says the NetBeans (P)PMC > > just > > > > > >> needs > > > > > >>> to clarify how things have to be named, to avoid confusion and > > > > especially > > > > > >>> as you say make it crystal clear what comes from Apache NetBeans > > and > > > > what > > > > > >>> does not. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> ...this would > > > > > >>>> be distributing an official release of NetBeans, just packed > > > > together > > > > > >>> with > > > > > >>>> something else.... > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> If it's binaries then no, it is not distributing an official > > release > > > > > >>> because releases consist only of source code. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> It's redistributing a convenience binary...I think we need to > > > > clarify at > > > > > >>> the Apache level this difference, I recently proposed a two-level > > > > view on > > > > > >>> releases and convenience binaries [1] which has not made its way > > to > > > > our > > > > > >>> official docs yet but should help understand. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> -Bertrand > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> [1] > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/01a64394c3996406d98904256ebdd46667bf73947983722e7ab57f50@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> -- > > > > > >> --emi > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
