Le 26/03/2012 16:18, Paul Piper a écrit :
Well, as some of you may know, I have been lurking around the mailing lists for
quite some while and added some input here and there. With ilscipio
(www.ilscipio.com/en) we are currently focusing on many aspects of Apache OFBiz
and try to contribute a little more to the community in the near future. We are
happy to say that our clients love Apache OFBiz and we are currently either in
the talks or already in collaboration with some global players.
Through the past few years, I have come to a few thoughts on the marketability
of Apache OFBiz, especially with regards to the architecture.
I would like to discuss these openly with you, since I got the feeling that
there are a few things that we as a whole should change in order to push Apache
OFBiz further. This does in no way mean that I am unsatisfied with the status
quo (clearly Apache OFBiz is an awesome piece of work with a great design
underneath), but rather that I think it may not be marketed correctly or be as
appealing as it could be.
Here is what I think:
· Is Apache OFBiz an eCommerce or an ERP System?
Apache OFBiz is marketed as an eCommerce System, but the eCommerce App is a
special purpose application. This doesn’t mean that it cannot be both, but if
you are marketing Apache OFBiz as a big eCommerce System (competing with
Hybris, Intershop and IBM Websphere on the market), then it should focus on
that. Don’t get me wrong, the overall architecture underneath aims at being
great for much more than the eCommerce App (clearly it is aiming to be used for
all business processes), but I think here is where we fail to show Apache OFBiz
at what it is. By losing focus on the eCommerce aspect of it all, we fail to
market it as a whole.
ERP System
When we are involved in trade show to present the Apache-OFBiz solutions
in France, we present an "ERP system" which can be use on 3 business cases :
for large company : a technical and functional Framework to be able to
build a dedicated solution
for sme company : a set of solutions, ready to use after a training and
setup phase ( these solutions used a lot of addons)
for very small company : a set (currently only one :-) of solution OOTB
eCommerce is always show as a component with a lot of success story
using Apache-OFBiz
If somebody are interested I can send directly some links to pictures
about our Stands.
· Target company size& clients
I think there is a big misunderstanding on our target group as a whole.
Apache OFBiz reaches a complexity so that it comes unattractive for small size
businesses. True, it features a lot for low costs, but then again, the
backoffice is overwhelming and customization takes a lot of effort so that
small size companies simply cannot implement Apache OFBiz successfully. If they
go that route they will have to pay for it with a lot of labor and or by paying
a lot of money. That is, in my opinion, why OFBiz competes with Hybris,
intershop, IBM Websphere and other rather big systems and is not competing
against Magento.
answer is in the previous one.
I'm ok with you, for small size company we need to be able to implement
without a lot of effort, so using what it has already done in previous
project, in our case addons, in future OFBiz-extras or similar thing.
So in the current situation +1 for your position
· Contradicting Architecture
The current architecture defines framework, applications, special-purpose and
hot-deploy apps. Whereas the definition being a little vague on:
o Framework – the basic stuff, entities, services and such
o Applications – General Applications that play a role in most environments
o Special Purpose – hey look, you can do this, too (more of a demo
implementation or lesser used applications)
o Hot-Deploy applications – your own application/modification
I have no problem with Framework& Hot-Deploy, but I believe that the current
way Applications and Special-Purpose are used is at least a little misleading. If
we assume that Apache OFBiz is an eCommerce Application then we must assume that
the eCommerce Component is a core element of the architecture. It isn’t. The same
applies for payment partners and distribution channels. All of these are special
purpose applications. I believe this goes hand in hand with a mind unset on whether
Apache OFBiz is an ERP or an eCommerce System. I would argue that either eCommerce
is added to applications and modified to be self-contained (I will explain this a
bit further in my next statement), or that eCommerce and all other special purpose
applications are dropped in favor of a modular design in which third parties
provide a store as a plugin to the Apache OFBiz framework. In case of the latter
Apache OFBiz should drop the eCommerce approach and rather focus on creating a
great eCommerce or ERP framework. It would also require proper release planning and
rollouts. Here a switch to maven could be beneficial since the dependencies are
easier to maintain – but that is another discussion.
IMO current architecture is clear, Frammework + Application should be
the kernel, hot-deploy and special purpose are available to choose what
they want to use
· Making it accessible
On a user level, I believe that OFbiz has a problem with showing too much to
the general public. Sure, OFBiz can do all a client would ask for, but the
problem is that the client doesn’t see it. He sees all functions at once and is
hence losing out of sight what he was looking for. This is the true reason for
why all Commerce Agencies start working on their own shop design and drop
functions wherever they can. It simply isn’t attractive to outsiders otherwise
(though again, the structure itself and the functionality it comes with is
where ofbiz shines). I personally would argue that keeping it down to a bare
minimum could benefit all. Perhaps we could create a list of supported
functions rather than trying to show off all of them at once. The functions can
remain as is. The same can be said about the backoffice, where we show off
functionalities that aren’t of interest to the key-users (a marketing person
is only interested in the marketing app, a product manager only in the product
manager etc.). Here we fail, by keeping cross references to other apps, instead
of opting for intuitive wizards or forms that the user can rely on. Simplicity
is key.
For demonstration purpose, we have created dedicated component for a
profession (ex: consultant in a Service company or Sales reps, or ...)
to be able to show only what they need. These component have mainly
dedicated menus and portal page.
With this approach, each component should have only feature about it,
but show all what it's possible.
On a developer level, OFBiz has a problem with keeping it easy to work with.
The structure in its own is designed for reusability, but at the same time
OFBiz fails to make it easy to customize. The current way widgets are used are
confusing to many outsiders – the cross references are simply overwhelming. So
I would argue we need better tools and opt for a clear design goal of each
application. At he same time the confusing architecture of the eCommerce
application makes it more difficult to customize the shop than it has to be.
Most people will probably look at OFBiz as an alternative to another eCommerce
System. We basically show off all the eCommerce App can do by providing a
“demo” with the special purpose application. However, we made it so that the
eCommerce app is not self-contained, meaning that she heavily relies on screens
and widgets that derive from the other applications. This means that we have a
conflict of interest here: we want people to customize, but at the same time
they cannot do that, because they will affect the other core applications. This
is the sole reason to why all developers either begin to copy the ftls into the
eCommerce application or another reasons why eCommerce agencies build their own
version of the store.
on back office, using portal page and portlet could be a answer but I'm
not sure for eCommerce
There is probably a lot more that I could add, but I really want to start a
discussion with you guys. As I said, I myself and ilscipio are really eager to
contribute more in the future and we would love to push OFBiz into a direction
that is beneficial to all of us J
It very important to contribute about Marketing support, thank you to
starting this discussion. Some of our marketing support can be send (not
on mailing-list but directly, because there is our trade mark on it)
Cheers,
Paul
Olivier
PS : all my answers are oriented on the marketing aspect (What we tell
to our prospect ), and certainly not to argue about other discussions ;-)
---
Paul Piper
Geschäftsführer
Web:<http://www.ilscipio.com/> http://www.ilscipio.com
Tel: (+49) 611-94589441
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