See below.
On 16/09/2014 4:56 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
Le 16/09/2014 20:53, Ron Wheeler a écrit :
There is also the legal issue about who has signed an ICLA and who
has agreed to give up their rights to the code.
It would not be very much fun if someone claimed that they has
submitted code under a group name and had never signed an ICLA but
now wanted Apache to stop using their code.
Some facts I know
This person should have the proof she is in this situation. It's
unclear to me at the international level. For instance in France if
you are an employee all your code pertains to your company.
But anyway each committer is somehow responsible of that he commits. I
wrote somehow because I recently (some months ago finally, time fly
when you are having fun ;) followed a very interesting conversation
titled "Continuous release review" in legal-disc...@apache.org ML and
it let me puzzled. You might find and judge by yourself from here in
this thread
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201405.mbox/%3cfbc4057e-4197-4142-a789-a12621224...@jagunet.com%3E
in a sense or the other (more back though IIRW)
This one is also interesting
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201406.mbox/%3c53a7e5a8.30...@apache.org%3E
And finally this one
https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201408.mbox/%3C072001cfbd5c$b46d0c00$1d472400$@rosenlaw.com%3E
It is not clear who would be responsible for fixing the system and
indemnifying the coder for using his/her work without permission.
Could the person sue individual companies who use OFBiz containing
his/her code. This would be a PR nightmare.
In theory that should not happen, of course exceptions always happen :D
It can not happen because everyone who commits code has signed an ICLA
and has taken personal responsibility for getting the employer's
permission to contribute the code.
If an ASF project allows anonymous contributions, this breaks down. The
PMC is responsible for ensuring that this does not happen.
The foundation of the ASF and the Apache License is that you can use
code without fear that someone will show up at your door and make you
stop using it because the coder never agreed to allow you to use it.
We all count on the PMC to ensure that the code base does not include
code that should not be there.
The ICLA is the first line of protection.
A Corporate CLA may also be required if the individual contributor
works for a company that owns all the code that they produce during
working hours.
Might be a good idea to review this before making a decision about
group accounts.
http://www.apache.org/dev/new-committers-guide.html
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#newcommitter described what needs
to be done before accepting contribution from a new person.
I am uncomfortable about wiki contributions from people without an
ICLA but code contributions from people who have not signed an ICLA
is probably going to drive ASF crazy.
An important link is in the thread I referred to above, for those who
don't have the time to read it, here it is
http://www.apache.org/dev/release-publishing.html#release_manager
And remember the motto: Community (social aspect) before code (legal
aspect).
Make the think that a jurisdiction looking at the proofs always
consider the social aspects when judging the legal ones, this is
called jurisprudence.
I never heard so far that someone seriously sued the ASF, but I could
be wrong...
Disclaimer: obviously I'm not a lawyer :D
Jacques
Ron
On 16/09/2014 1:21 PM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
On Sep 16, 2014, at 3:32 PM, Jacques Le Roux
<jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
Le 16/09/2014 11:57, Scott Gray a écrit :
I think it would be better if contributors used individual
accounts. Since there was no ill intent and infra is already
taking care of the issue I'm not sure there's much to discuss.
I believe there were no ill intents. This page tends to prove it
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/~hwmofbizus : only good
things there.
But we know that the Apache way is about individual *meritocracy*
and only persons are responsible of their acts.
A PMC chair shall not forget that point:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-8229, nor a PMC member
like Anil.
Premise: there are several similar non-personal users in the ASF
Jira that submit Jira tickets (for OFBiz and other ASF projects)
and, as far as I know, no one has complained or disabled them (see
for example brema-dev, opensocial.qa, blackbox.dev, teamhiro...);
not all I do is with my PMC Chair on.
That account was just an experiment, a failed one I have to say, to
facilitate the exchange of information between the OFBiz community
and an HWM team that Anil has setup in order to facilitate our
company contribution to the OFBiz project; the team is composed by
analysts, designers, developers and testers. The idea was that the
whole team could work on a contribution, possibly discussing the
details with the community, and then either deliver the work to the
community (patch in Jira) or communicate with one of the committers
in our team; at that point the committer would have taken charge of
the contribution (I think this is similar with what Hans is doing
with several of his commits). Rather than mentioning all the people
of the team in the commit log, the idea was to mention the team,
with the committer taking ownership of the code change.
It was probably not a great idea and I am ok to step back: maybe,
rather than asking the Infra team to disable the account you could
have mention your concerns to Anil or me, but I am not complaining
for your action, the heated discussions in the last days may have
played a role in your decision.
It is not a big deal for HWM, we will just adjust this process and
have individual communications with the community.
The only things I'm a bit worry about is how deserving individuals
can be recognised if they are only seen through contributions of
their company?
I agree this is an open and still unresolved topic: HWM has several
employees that would be great OFBiz committers but in the past there
were concerns from some of you about the fact that HWM could be
represented by too many persons. We will see how it goes.
As the motto says: "community before code"
+1
Jacopo
Jacques
By the way, could you please pick a single list to send to?
Cross-posting is annoying and results in a bunch of duplicated or
disjointed discussions in the archives.
Regards
Scott
On 16/09/2014, at 9:43 pm, Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi all,
Recently I saw some changes to wiki pages and some comments to
JIRA issues
made by user hmwofbizus with name Hotwax Media OFBiz Team.
But who is Hotwax Media OFBiz Team? Is that one person or a group of
persons using the same account?
Is this what we want in an open source project under the umbrella
of the
ASF? It seems to me that it makes it harder to attribute
contributions to
individuals and to bestow merit and thanks to the person.
Regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
