Fascinating diagram in that link from The Economist. I had no idea IBM had such huge market share in the past! It's good to see the industry becoming more "distributed", ie market share spread across a larger number of companies.
Thanks, nice to be engaged in the project here and there. No, I wasn't at ApacheCon last week, a bit outside my current budgets (both time and money), especially with competing priorities like visiting family and friends... which I'm sure is the case for many would have liked to attend. -David > On 21 Apr 2015, at 01:12, Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Nice to have you back and engaged, David. My apologies if I didn't express > that earlier. > > Were you at ACNA15 also? > > Best regards, > > Pierre Smits > > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* > Services & Solutions for Cloud- > Based Manufacturing, Professional > Services and Retail & Trade > http://www.orrtiz.com > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 8:59 AM, Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Quoting: >> >> I suspect that the world is heading to git. I am just starting to get >> acquanted with it and beginning to feel like a bit of a dinosaur using SVN >> for our projects internally. >> >> >> That should be in another thread. Nevertheless, such can be said regarding >> a lot of (also unrelated) subjects/things which are still happily used by a >> great number. See the 'dinosaur' in this: >> http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/images/print-edition/20150404_WBC737_0.png >> >> Best regards, >> >> Pierre Smits >> >> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* >> Services & Solutions for Cloud- >> Based Manufacturing, Professional >> Services and Retail & Trade >> http://www.orrtiz.com >> >> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:43 AM, Ron Wheeler < >> rwhee...@artifact-software.com> wrote: >> >>> On 20/04/2015 5:07 PM, David E. Jones wrote: >>> >>>> On 20 Apr 2015, at 12:48, Ron Wheeler <rwhee...@artifact-software.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 20/04/2015 3:11 PM, David E. Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 20 Apr 2015, at 11:35, Ron Wheeler <rwhee...@artifact-software.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Would Moqui become a sub-project of OFBiz with distinct deliverable >>>>>>> with an Apache license? >>>>>>> Or is that too much community? >>>>>>> >>>>>> IMO they are better as distinct projects. There is a chance Moqui >>>>>> Framework could become a separate ASF project, though the name "Apache >>>>>> Moqui" is oddly contradictory (I chose the name based on Moqui Marbles, >>>>>> but >>>>>> it is also another name for the Hopi tribe). More seriously, these days I >>>>>> like the distributed and moderated approaches used in the Linux kernel >>>>>> more >>>>>> than the community approach mandated by the ASF. >>>>>> >>>>> What would be the problem of it being part of OFBiz in the same way >>>>> that FOP and Batik are part of the XLMGraphics project or Jetspeed is part >>>>> of the Portals project. >>>>> A lot less work than a TLP but still benefiting from Apache. >>>>> Would not have to call of Apache Moqui. It would just be Moqui , part >>>>> of Apache OfBiz >>>>> >>>> XML Graphics and Portals are both umbrella projects, meant to have >>>> sub-projects, and OFBiz is not. OFBiz could be restructured that way, and >>>> perhaps even have sub-projects without that restructuring sort of like the >>>> Jackrabbit Oak project, but still not sure if it makes sense. On that note: >>>> if a Moqui-based (or Moqui and Mantle based) version of OFBiz were built it >>>> might make sense as a sub-project just like Oak is of Jackrabbit. On a far >>>> side note: Oak looks great but I wish it ran on something other than >>>> MongoDB so it could be embedded for dev and smaller deployments! >>>> >>>> The process of becoming a TLP isn't that much of a concern to me. It >>>> takes time, but is worth it to establish a firm foundation for the project >>>> going forward. >>>> >>>> The main issues that concern me are the various and changing policies of >>>> the ASF. I have a hard time seeing the point of trademarks for open source >>>> projects, for example. >>>> >>> Not sure if this is key to the current discussion but I would not mind >>> hearing details of your concerns since we have put a bit of an effort into >>> that area recently. >>> >>>> The community model is another concern, I don't like the structure as >>>> much as certain alternatives in the open source world (even if I used to >>>> think it was the best approach, or at least something similar to the ASF >>>> approach). It may be possible to manage a more distributed community and >>>> code base with various fork repositories and feature/issue branches in the >>>> style of git (ie actually using git within the ASF). >>>> >>> I suspect that the world is heading to git. I am just starting to get >>> acquanted with it and beginning to feel like a bit of a dinosaur using SVN >>> for our projects internally. >>> >>>> >>>> During incubation the biggest community risk is _forcing_ a certain >>>> number of committers and PMC members. I don't want to scrape to include >>>> people in these roles as they are vital to the future of the project. I >>>> would rather let people come along, express interest, and thoroughly prove >>>> merit before they take on such a role. >>>> >>> One of the advantages of joning an existing project is that you are not >>> affected by the restriction on users and PMC members. >>> >>>> >>>> As for community, regardless of the structure the various Moqui >>>>>> projects are now in a good place for a bigger community and it is needed >>>>>> for more significant growth in the projects. There are parallels to OFBiz >>>>>> which was mostly two people until around 2004-2005 when the project >>>>>> exploded (we had other contributors before then, but most not so involved >>>>>> or enduring). Jacopo was the first really strong contributor in 2003, and >>>>>> remains to this day! I'm still looking for a "Jacopo" for Moqui... heck, >>>>>> maybe it'll be Jacopo. ;) (No pressure Jacopo: I know you're a busy man >>>>>> and >>>>>> doing fantastic and important work elsewhere including OFBiz, Hotwax, and >>>>>> other projects you contribute to.) >>>>>> >>>>>> As for licensing: the public domain "license" is even less restrictive >>>>>> than the Apache 2 license. The one thing that bothers me about the >>>>>> licensing approach, that I'll freely admit but that I'm not sure how to >>>>>> handle better, is the explicit patent grant that is in the Apache 2 >>>>>> license >>>>>> (which made it incompatible with GPL2, though GPL3 has it too so it is >>>>>> "compatible", ie no additional restrictions). In theory this shouldn't >>>>>> be a >>>>>> legal issue because releasing it as public domain means giving up most IP >>>>>> rights, and there is the prior art aspect of it too, but patent courts >>>>>> these days (at least in the USA) are awful and they don't seem to care >>>>>> about prior art unless you pay a few million USD to lawyers along with >>>>>> substantial court fees to get that recognized. In theory it shouldn't be >>>>>> an >>>>>> issue, not sure if it ever has been even for Apache 2 licensed code, but >>>>>> it >>>>>> could be and in theory the terms in the Apache 2 license make it cheaper >>>>>> to >>>>>> defend against patent claims (again in theory... chances are there would >>>>>> still be significant, possibly bankrupting, legal fees to defend against >>>>>> such). >>>>>> >>>>> Being a part of an Apache project makes it harder to try to steal the >>>>> IP or claim ownership. >>>>> >>>> Because of the ASF legal fund? >>>> >>> and the reputation of Apache, the major sponsors and the number of >>> companies that would have big problems if the Apache license came under >>> attack. >>> Many of the big patent trolls and patent holders use Apache products in >>> their own products and operations. They would have a hard time explaining >>> to shareholders the costs and liabilities that they would suffer if Apache >>> licenses could not be trusted. >>> >>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ron Wheeler >>> President >>> Artifact Software Inc >>> email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com >>> skype: ronaldmwheeler >>> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102 >>> >>> >>> >>
