Wow. Awesome. Things are about to start happening here, I can tell. Great
job everyone. Way to save a project.

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016, 9:03 PM Hadrian Zbarcea <[email protected]> wrote:

> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OPENAZ
>
> Hadrian
>
> On 02/09/2016 11:20 AM, David Ash wrote:
> > So much to talk about, so many good thoughts.
> >
> > I think there's a path forward, and I definitely would vote to keep this
> > project alive.
> >
> >
> >     - I am interested in developing and helping the project move
> forward.  I
> >     hope that Carlos is also interested in putting in some work to make
> this
> >     project happen.  Personally, sure I'm busy but I don't feel like
> there's a
> >     lot of work to be done to make this project releasable and do the
> things
> >     necessary to make it pick up and bring in more people.  The core
> code base
> >     is already highly functional.  I know it works because I worked on an
> >     application that consumed its services at AT&T back in the day.
> There's
> >     just a bit of work to smoothing out the process of installation and
> running
> >     it with a standard servlet server.  And it needs documentation.
> >
> >     - I'm a little disheartened that we haven't heard from Pam Dragosh.
> >     She's the original visionary behind it, and I'd very much like to
> have just
> >     a little bit of her time to help us transition it the rest of the
> way to
> >     Apache (not coding, but a transfer of knowledge to aid
> documentation.  And
> >     maybe it's just all implemented according to some spec, but I'm not
> aware
> >     of whether the XACML spec somehow specifies API endpoints, etc).  And
> >     there's an entire admin API that is difficult to reverse engineer.
> >
> >     - I work for a company that may be willing to donate some work in
> >     exchange for a bit of recognition.  I am going to the Fluent
> conference in
> >     early March, and will be meeting the CTO of my company there.  I'm
> going to
> >     use that opportunity to try to get him on-board with us helping this
> >     project.  I think it makes sense for both the project and the
> company.
> >
> >     - I agree it's probably the wrong thread to talk Maven vs. Gradle,
> but
> >     if Gradle has some advantages (which it sounds like it does), maybe
> moving
> >     to Gradle is what needs to happen.  Sure, it's only 1%, but that's
> where
> >     this project is.  We're basically that 1% of the way away from being
> able
> >     to release this, with the exception of documentation (and to some
> degree
> >     promotion).
> >
> >     - We obviously need some basic project management work to get done.
> We
> >     need a JIRA instance up and running for us, and we need some tasks
> put in
> >     there.  Who can volunteer to make some/all of that happen?  If no
> one else
> >     wants to volunteer, I can do it (although if Apache already has an
> instance
> >     for us to use, I don't know where it is).  And who could edit the
> main page
> >     to create those links?  Can Carlos and I be promoted to make more
> things
> >     happen?
> >
> >     - We need a roadmap.  I'm not big on roadmaps personally, but I have
> a
> >     basic idea of what it needs to be for the short term:
> >     - Smooth out the build process.
> >        - Get AT&T out of anywhere it remains in the code.
> >        - Version 1.0 Release
> >
> > Any other thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 7:28 AM, Sinnema, Remon <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Attracting outside interest will be hard when it's unclear what people
> can
> >> work on.
> >>
> >> The project page doesn't provide a lot of information:
> >> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/openaz.html
> >> The "website" that it links to gives 404.
> >>
> >> There is no link to the issue tracker. Emmanuel mentioned JIRA, but
> where
> >> is it?
> >> I couldn't find a roadmap either.
> >>
> >> The code contains no guidance about the various sub-projects, how they
> >> relate together, and what their status is.
> >>
> >> Give this situation, if I wanted to contribute, I wouldn't know where to
> >> start.
> >>
> >>
> >> BTW, the old project page still exists but doesn't link to Apache:
> >> http://www.openliberty.org/wiki/index.php/OpenAz_Main_Page
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: David Ash [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> Sent: maandag 8 februari 2016 22:42
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] - Retire OpenAz?
> >>
> >> I think it hasn't seen much activity over the past two months because
> it's
> >> been a holiday season.  I know most of the AT&T people take most of
> >> December off (once upon a time, I was one).
> >>
> >> It has a lot of work to be done before it's functional and even remotely
> >> mature, and we're not going to see a lot of outside interest until it
> gets
> >> there.
> >> * The Admin part is crucial, and it hadn't even been ported over (I
> ported
> >> it myself, still need to fork in github and do a pull-request).
> >> * There's a shortage of documentation.  To the point that it's unusable.
> >> * It's complicated enough that its difficult to come up with the
> >> documentation.
> >>
> >> Now, sure there seems to be a shortage of interest but I say give that
> >> time.  XACML is not a thing of the past, it's still part of the future.
> >> Organizations and software developers are still slowly moving to XACML
> --
> >> it is the best authorization solution in existence to my knowledge, and
> >> fits nicely into a modern auth stack with SCIM, JSON Identity Suite,
> OpenID
> >> Connect, and OAuth.  (
> >> http://www.slideshare.net/nordicapis/1415-twobo-nordicap-istour
> >> ).  Most developers still aren't using an external authorization
> solution
> >> because they are building highly-coupled monolithic software that sucks.
> >> And honestly, there aren't a lot of other free open source options.  The
> >> only alternative I see that is any good is WSO2's Identity Server
> (which is
> >> vastly superior to this product, but hey that's an opportunity in some
> >> ways).  If this project really succeeded, it would at least allow
> >> developers of open source systems to build better, more modular
> software.
> >>
> >> The main problem I see is that AT&T still has most of the knowledge and
> is
> >> able to put very little effort behind it.  We need Pam's team to write
> up
> >> some high quality documentation (particularly for the API's) and release
> >> that information.
> >>
> >> The other problem I see is there's kind of a lack of vision as far as I
> >> can tell.  We need someone in the lead that has the time to craft a
> vision
> >> for what this product should really be.  When you look at WSO2's
> Identity
> >> Server, you immediately start realizing the possibilities -- things that
> >> this project haven't even touched yet.
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> David Ash
> >>
> >>
> >> PS. I'll put in a pull request for my port of the Admin interface.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Emmanuel Lécharny <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Le 08/02/16 16:53, Carlos Perez a écrit :
> >>>> Hi guys,
> >>>>
> >>>> While I completely understand the reasoning for the discussion to
> >>>> retire OpenAXZ, and to be completely honest I was surprised it took
> >>>> this long), it would be a real shame to see it just fade away into
> >> oblivion.
> >>>
> >>> I Agree.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> That said, what does happen when a project never makes it to a TLP?
> >>>
> >>>  From Apache POV, not a lot. We just shut down the mailing lists, and
> >>> close the repos (no more writes allowed).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Does
> >>>> it have a chance to be resuscitated later if it is deemed worthwhile
> >>>> and has more interest?
> >>> It's always a possibility. A very remote one, I have to say. The fact
> >>> that in almost 2 years the project hasn't be able to attract any new
> >>> contributors, and that almost no activity has been seen from the
> >>> initial contributors make it unlikely that the project could make a
> come
> >> back.
> >>>
> >>> In 10 years, I haven't seen that happen. Not once.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Does the license revert back to AT&T?
> >>>
> >>> Good question. I can ask [email protected] about that. The fact that it didn't
> >>> make it to a TLP might be relevant. For TLPs, the code base has been
> >>> granted to The ASF and remains so, same for the name.
> >>>>
> >>>> XACML is a complicated spec and I can¹t say that I fully understand
> >>>> it yet, but I think it solves a real problem (I just regret not
> >>>> having the time personally to help push it along).
> >>>
> >>> That's the main issue : the fcat that it's a complex code base might
> >>> be intimidating for many of the potential users. But IMHO, would it be
> >>> really a critical brick of many IT systems, it *would* have attracted
> >>> developpers. That raises the question of XACML as a useful technology.
> >>> It as been around for more than 10 years now, and I'm not sure that it
> >>> captured a lot of interest. But that may be just me... (and I *think*
> >>> it could have been a big hit years ago. Not so sure nowadays.)
> >>>
> >>> Thanks !
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>

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