I would say, let's going on in the mail thread in @L10n. Otherwise it's
just double postings. ;-)
Marcus
Am 12.05.21 um 11:33 schrieb Dean.Webber:
I have updated the "main" page for the Esperanto (EO) language. The html code
is available at https://justpaste.it/8yuud for upload.
The pages have mostly been translated using translate.yandex.com with help from
en.bab.la/dictionary/english-esperanto/ for the remaining few.
This will still point to the english version of the downloads page, as the
Esperanto version has been relocated for housekeeping purposes.
If someone could upload this, I can make sure that it looks as it should when
sitting in the correct location.
As a final check I can translate it back to English, to ensure that the meaning
has not changed significantly.
I was not sure how the language detection in the page operates, but I set the variable
for language to "eo" on line 271, is that sufficient?
🙂
The original was based from the English (en-GB) version found from
www.openoffice.org/?redirect=soft<http://www.openoffice.org/?redirect=soft> and clicking
on "This site is also available in English (en-GB). Just click this text to get
redirected.". The soft redirect message appears when changing from another language back
to English.
________________________________
From: Aivaras Stepukonis <astepuko...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2021 1:23 AM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <dev@openoffice.apache.org>
Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Thank for the link, Marcus!
Yes, as long as the visitors are informed they can help with
localization, keeping the website up to date by removing from sight the
bits that are unmaintained is an appropriate QA step.
Aivaras
2021-05-11 14:01, Marcus rašė:
Am 11.05.21 um 11:35 schrieb Aivaras Stepukonis:
On the subject of unmaintained, untranslated local webpages.
One should start with a simple set of criteria that allows to
determine what is/is not unmaintained. Something like:
1. incomplete page translation;
2. outdated page layout/design.
the criteria are summarized here:
https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414144036%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DEnEpvYDuzBAw0qhtWplPWqHwMSd8p56Btwk6S0bDXI%3D&reserved=0
Then one would archive the pages that fall under the above criteria.
The visitors coming from the locales of the unlocalized pages would
instead be directed to the main page with a message "If you can help
translating this page into your native language, let us know!"
This is already done in a slightly different way:
- Pages have English text
- A big, red box with text similar to yours but just a bit more.
- No redirection to the main page
Marcus
2021-05-11 02:07, Marcus rašė:
Am 11.05.21 um 00:18 schrieb Dean.Webber:
How many localization pages need to be translated? How many pages
are 'not maintained'?
the default set has ~40 pages. But I haven't counted the total
amount of words or sentences.
Depending on the extend of the pages, we can adopt a translate
service (which will have some cost attached). For example to
translate 100 pages of similar character length using the yandex
translate api will cost $5.00/month (assuming USD).
Hm, costs are always not a good argument. OpenOffice is made by
volunteers. The same should apply to the creation and maintenance of
webpages or documentation in general.
I don't know the quality of translated languages of Yandex or
others. But I know Google Translate and its quality is ...
improvable. ;-)
Otherwise perhaps a list of these pages can be left for those that
are new recruits, or looking for something to do. So, if they chose
too, they can spend some time working on localizations or
translations. They can then use a translate service (for free) to
convert from the sources to the localization language.
This may result in poor quality translation, but enough for people
to get the general idea, and a good starting point for native
language speakers to modify pages.
As written previously the pages are unmaintained for years. There
are no volunteers that would take care of it. So, translating a part
of it and then others can do the remaining stuff will not come true.
Very seldom we get a mail that someone has seen a message like you
can see here in the red box [1]. We give them a few hints and how
and where to start with translation and then ... noting more. Thats
all.
But honestly, I have no idea of the scale of the localization pages.
The problem is that there is nobody who can take care of these
pages. The effort for a few or even one person is enormous. I mean
the project people. Volunteers of course would takeover only one
language.
I don't want to be seen as carrier of bad news. However, the
value-add is very low as the very most pages are for languages that
aren't really widespread by its nature.
[1]
https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fast%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414144036%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=X%2BtqwcTVfcEGIVmui7bOAfLLCc9WWFWNXaCc4URyYvQ%3D&reserved=0
Marcus
________________________________
From: Marcus <marcus.m...@wtnet.de>
Sent: Tuesday, 11 May 2021 6:16 AM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <dev@openoffice.apache.org>
Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Am 10.05.21 um 05:46 schrieb Dean.Webber:
Can not these pages then be converted to language using translate
service?
[...]
the effort would be much too high.
It' not only Esperanto. We then have to do this for every language
that
is a bit unmaintained which would be 2 dozends. And there are still
languages we don't offer yet at least as an entry website. Another 3
dozens more I would guess.
So, who should do this work? ;-)
Esperanto is still there:
https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414149028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=EQrYCqhjb88mNltBKtkcP2UaXckdp3gzr%2FYHTKNl5Y0%3D&reserved=0
If you want to help, feel free to give us a hint.
Marcus
________________________________
From: Marcus <marcus.m...@wtnet.de>
Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2021 10:16 AM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org <dev@openoffice.apache.org>;
François Coulmeau <fran.coulm...@wanadoo.fr>
Cc: Emmanuelle Richard <emmrich...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: OOo:eo Localization page
Am 07.05.21 um 22:39 schrieb François Coulmeau:
As I could see in
"https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414149028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=FgeWSQfNk8ZE3YAj3%2FaBwX1HTM3tS7z2zPUdHKJwAYk%3D&reserved=0";
<https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Fprojects%2Fnative-lang.html&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414149028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=FgeWSQfNk8ZE3YAj3%2FaBwX1HTM3tS7z2zPUdHKJwAYk%3D&reserved=0>
that help is
wanted for Esperanto Website and that Esperanto OpenOffice
availability
is outdated, I went to page
"https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openoffice.org%2Feo%2F&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414154019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=cOgKtxGtwFxwoKijCm6LN1oHoX%2Bx1nzdPKBs7v4c81Q%3D&reserved=0";.
But ...
1 - I was supposed to find a link somewhere on the left ("vidu la
ligilojn maldekstre") that I cannot see (Would you like a
screenshot?).
The section « *Navigado:* en la kadro maldekstre troviĝas ligoj
al paĝoj
de la projekto esperantlingva » states a frame should be found on
the
left, but the text is full width;
2 - I tried the link "vidu la projekton Komputeko
<https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvikio.ikso.net%2FProjektoj%2FKomputeko&data=04%7C01%7C2018001901%40student.sit.ac.nz%7C6379c6930f444b8bf8c008d9148007f2%7Cc46ab213d1794a719ff7b9d9fe3f3b48%7C0%7C1%7C637563362414154019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=mZsVKqiAa8AO5n0i%2BZGsP6kduEQGX%2FRLWKT03eu7XzA%3D&reserved=0>",
that is broken ;
3 - I sent a message (via the last line: "Skribu al La
Esperantiga Skipo
<mailto:ti...@openoffice.org>"), that was returned (see the
message below).
Can we find someone at Apache to update the page? Or, better to
"localize" (or "unlocalize", as Esperanto is used worldwide!)
OpenOffice?
Aren't esperantists to help updating the page and/or OOo:eo (they
would
need data from Apache)?
at the moment we are looking into webpages that are unmaintained and
therefore don't show an added value. These should be deleted.
Esperanto
is one of them as it is lonely since years. So, I wanted to delete
this
in the next days.
However, when you have real interest to get this up-to-date again,
then
just give us a hint. We can help you with updating the information
- but
not with translating the text.
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