Just to be clear, the initial committer names in the Pekko proposal [1] are
automatically members of the Pekko PPMC (Podling PMC) and will be PMC
members if/when the project graduates.

I proposed a process for adding new committers in a separate conversation.


[1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/PekkoProposal

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 2:16 PM Jean-Luc Deprez <[email protected]>
wrote:

> All the better, I guess 🤷‍♂️
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 2:40 PM PJ Fanning <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > The Pekko PMC has basically the same role and importance when Pekko is
> > a podling as it will have when Pekko graduates to be a Top Level
> > Project.
> >
> > There is an oversight role from the Incubator PMC but that does not
> > lessen the importance of the Pekko PMC.
> >
> > On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 at 12:54, Jean-Luc Deprez <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > What is set in CODEOWNERS is somewhat "set in stone". So I'd argue to
> > keep
> > > that broad, like PMC(ish). People will naturally partition themselves
> in
> > > feeling they can rule on a certain section of the code. Without
> > inhibiting
> > > progress, waiting for a very small set of people to revive.
> > >
> > > I think the PMC ends up being a large group anyway, especially for a
> > > project of this size. The fact that you need 3+ PMC votes + majority,
> > sure
> > > seems to indicate that.
> > >
> > > (btw, I'm well aware that the whole PMC thing only formally activates
> > when
> > > graduating from the incubator, but I'd argue that the current start
> list
> > of
> > > committers is indicative for what could be PMC?)
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 11:31 AM Johannes Rudolph <
> > > [email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks to all that input.
> > > >
> > > > One thing to keep in mind is that Akka/Pekko codebase is already a
> > > > mature project with all its consequences:
> > > >
> > > >  * There are parts of the code base that are very stable and will
> > > > likely not change a lot. If we hope to carry part of the user base,
> we
> > > > will also inherit part of the stability expectations towards these
> > > > parts (especially APIs in akka-actor, akka-stream, akka-http, etc)
> > > >  * Some parts like akka-stream are stable and have a big API that
> > > > gives the impression that you could easily add more but which needs
> > > > careful vetting in many small detailed cases to keep maintenance
> > > > tractable.
> > > >  * Some parts like alpakka connectors have been contributed by a big,
> > > > diverse community (often one-time engagements) and are in different
> > > > states of code quality. Many one of those did not have any active
> > > > maintainer. Here it is important to set expectations and have low
> > > > hurdles for contributions.
> > > >  * Some parts like the clustering and persistence parts are
> relatively
> > > > complex and have complex test suites making contribution non-trivial.
> > > >
> > > > It will be a main task to figure out how to evolve such a complex
> > > > project and how to solve the friction between keeping stability but
> > > > also figuring out ways and places to evolve. The only way to get that
> > > > done is to find enough shoulders to spread the load. Some mechanism
> > > > like CODEOWNERS will be needed to figure out who is responsible (even
> > > > if overall ownership is shared, of course) for which part of the
> code.
> > > > Saying that everyone is responsible for everything as a whole is not
> > > > realistic. It's also not a realistic expectation for anyone to be
> able
> > > > to keep track of everything that might go on in all parts of the
> code.
> > > >
> > > > I would propose to identify parts of the whole project that are
> > > > sufficiently standalone, define expectations for each part, and let
> > > > the committers divide themselves between those subprojects. Then
> after
> > > > a release (or periodically) review if there are enough people
> > > > available for every part of the project and see how to improve. That
> > > > said, I think we should keep the amount of policies small and leave
> > > > room for flexibility where needed.
> > > >
> > > > I would not move away from review then commit which seems to be the
> > > > accepted standard in the existing community but maybe a single
> > > > reviewer will suffice. (Not sure what that means about PMC's vs
> > > > regular committer's votes. Will we need/have lots of PMCs to make
> that
> > > > work?)
> > > >
> > > > Johannes
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 10:57 PM Justin Mclean <
> > [email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > > Please pardon my ignorance of the details of common Apache
> > processes,
> > > > > > I guess this proposal is modeled after existing Apache projects.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no ASF requirements for this process, and each project can
> > > > decide what it should be. That being said, most projects select CTR
> > (commit
> > > > then review). Having an RTC (review then commit) style process,
> > especially
> > > > requiring two approvals, seems unnecessary to me. I would try and
> keep
> > it
> > > > as simple as possible and reduce the number of rules. The more
> complex
> > you
> > > > make this , the less likely the project will attract new committers
> or
> > will
> > > > exclude groups of committers.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Are there existing Apache Projects that we could take as an
> > example?
> > > > > > (E.g. Kafka?
> > > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Contributing+Code+Changes
> > > > )
> > > > >
> > > > > I would avoid emulating projects like Kafka, that encourage a high
> > > > committer bar. They are the exception in how ASF projects operate
> > rather
> > > > than what is typical of an Apache project.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > Justin
> > > > >
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